Tune-up, first time, 47 Plymouth

[central52]

This is my first ever attempt at a tune-up for my 47 Plymouth. I'm buying the tune-up kit from Andy Bernbaum. Also, the plug wires. They also have a distributor breaker plate assembly. Should I change that? Is it necessary? I don't want to get into something I can't get out of if possible. Any helpful tips and suggestions on how to do this without too much pain and suffering?

[greg g]

If you bought the repoped original look spark plug wires, they leak, had a set on mine and at night it looked like a Pink Floyd light Show under the hood. In anticipation of a long road trip I just bought a set of universal 6 cylinder copper core tractor wires from Tractor Supply Company 16 Bucks tax included.

Unless your breaker plate is sticking or very rusty, I would leave it alone.

Easiset way to change the stuff in the dizzy is to pull it out of the engine and replace the parts on the bench or with the diz clamped in the vise. Remove the vacuum line the coil wire, the wire from the coil to the side of the diz. Remove the diz caps leaving the wires in the cap and move it aside. With a piece of chalk or tire crayon, make a reference mark on the engien block that lines up with where the vacuum advance points to, then mark the diz whare the rotor points to. Then pull the retaining screw that holds the diz to the engine and pull the diz out of the engine. This will allow you to inspect all the parts of the diz, the shaft shouldn't wobble in the body, the breaker plate should move freely, the points cam should still have points on it, you can check the vacuum advance movement with either a hand vacuum pump or by sucking on a line attached to the fitting. You can check the condition of the internal wire that runs from the terminal on the body to the points, and you can assure that the lug insulation is still in good condition. Broken insulation here will allow the signal from the points to go to ground rather than the coil.

Same wit the internal wire. This needs to be a flexible piece. I found mine had most of the insullation dried and split. Not having a suitably flexible piece of wire, I removed the original piece and wound a couple of passes of silk thread over it which I then covered with rubber cement. Still working after 5 years.

Remove the old points, if you have a magnitized screw driver use it to keep track of these small screws, mine seem to want to jump out and escape to undiscovered places in my garage. Remove the condesor. Install the new pieces and adjust the points gap as specified with a feeler gauge of the proper thickness. Snug up the adjusting and retaining screws. Make sure you apply some of the greas that comes with the points on the rubbing block where it contacts the diz cam. Before you rinstall the diz, put some light oil in the oil cup on the side under the body. Reinstall the diz realigning to your reference marks, reinstall the rotor and cap. Assure your coil wire is fully seated in the cap.

If you are changine the spark plug wires do then one at a time starting with the longest first. cut them to lenght snap it on the plug, thread it through the wire loom, add the distributor cap and end, and snap it tightly into the diz cap.

You can adjust your timing with a timing light, or by attaching a vacuum gauge tot he port on the intake manifold, and turning the distributor to achive the highest possible vacuum reading at idle (should be 600 RPM or less) the Vacuum reading should be between 19 and 21 inches on a healthy engine.

While you are in the neighboor hood, give the oil fitting on the back of the generator a shot or two of oil, and check the fan belt for proper tension. Good time to clean and tighten your battery cable clamps on both ends.

While were talking about bat cables, yours should be nice thick ones. In many cases these will have been replaced over the years by new ones made for 12 V applications. Should be minimum 1 gauge wire. If yours are not as thick as you little finger, I would replace them with properly sized cables.

Hope this helps.

[Don Coatney]

Tune up parts for your car (points, condenser, rotor, distributor cap, sparkplugs, and replacement plug wires) can be purchased from most any good auto parts store. No need to go to the antique auto parts dealers for these. Greg gave good advice on pulling the distributor to install new points.

I used an electric drill and an auxiliary power supply to power up my distributor on the bench and set the dwell while the distributor was spinning. I also converted my distributor to dual points but you should be fine with single points in your distributor.

[RALPHDEI]

Some good pointers were brought up, pulling the dist. using over the counter parts (A B is the last place to buy parts from) ect. watch those little wires there know for grounding out, so the engine won't start, and you'll bang your head trying to firgure out what you did wrong. Also check the vacuum advance for leaks.

[central52]

Thanks guys for advice and pictures. Question tho, my manual shows the distributor, and it reads "to adjust the breaker points, turn the engine by means of the fan until the distributor breaker point rubbing block is on a high point of the distributor cam." What is this "rubbing block", I can't seem to make it out in the picture.

[greg g]

The rubbing block is that brown plastic or now nylon piece of the points assembly that contacts the dizzy cam. Looks like the white part of the points in the picture Don posted. That is also where the lube shoulb be put on. You want just a small bit of it to coat the block. Too much and it will fling it self around inside the diz. There are two screws holding the points to the breaker plate, the one in the sloted hole should have a concentric head. This is the means by which you set the point gap. Put both screws in snug, then rotate the drive so that the block is on the high point of the cam, than by turning the adjusting screw against the slot in the points, this will leaver the points open. When the feeler gauge goes into an out of the opend points against slight resistance, tighten the locking screw. By slight resistance I mean you should feel a perceptable drag against the feeler gage when you pull it up from between the points. Then recheck the other screws holsing the wire and you should be good to go.

Place the diz back in the engine, hold it up so it doesn't seat, align the hold down tab with the screw hole on the engine block, then rotate the shaft so the rotor lines up with the mark you made earlier and then seat the diz and replace the hold down screw leaving it snug. Then align the vacuum canister with the other mark you made, and it should be back in the way it came out.

Reattach the wire from the coil to the points terminal. Make sure your rotor is seated and remains pointed at your alignment mark, then reinstall the cap.

If you are changing the spark plug wires (one of my tasks for today) this would be the time to do it. OR you might want to try to start the car and make sure it runs before dealing with the spark plug wires.

[central52]

Thanks again for the info. This really helps me, as I mentioned before that this is all new ground for me, and any and all information is greatly appreciated. Ed

[central52]

I changed the points & condenser. The small wires seemed O.K., but I wrapped some electrical black tape around it anyhow. Even tho it rubs up against the casing, is that all right? Is the bottom wire connected with the screw that holds the points? I forgot how it looked when I took it out. And when I put the disbributor back in, do I need a gasket for it? When I pulled it out, I didn't notice one. And if so, what kind? Ed

[greg g]

There should be a cork washer under the diz where it meets theengine block. A suitably sized rubber "O" ring fromthe dept store should work fine. Check the 1st photo in the post above by Don C, there are two wires shown. The one from the exterior lug for the coil wire, and the one partially covered by the cap clip. That one completes the points circuit to ground by conecting the moveable breaker plate to the nomoveable piece attached to allow grounding. So some of the distributors are slightly different as to what that wire attaches to but one end to the grounded piece and the other to the points or near them on the moveable breaker plate. The third wire or connector is for the condensor. That also goes to the points/coil terminal

[central52]

Thanks Greg, Your info is right on. My distributor is slightly different than the picture, but I see now where the wires go, and I connected them correctly. So, now I'll get the gasket and put her back on.

[central52]

Greg, Sorry to bother you again. I'm going over the first instructions you posted, and you said, after taking out the distributor, that the "breaker plate should move freely". I'm not sure what that means. As I look at the distributor, everything seems to be locked down with screws. The only thing that moves is the middle shaft and the points. Am I missing something here? Help.

[greg g]

Take a small screw driver and try to push the plate toward the vacuum canister, it should move. It moves against a fairly stiff spring in the vacuum pot but it should rotate in that direction and return when released. The movement change the points position relative to the breaker cam as engine rpms increase and that return as rpms drop. The reaker cam is the 6 pointed deal on the rotating shaft.

[central52]

Thanks Greg, The plate moved and it snapped back. Pretty strong spring in there. One last question, if you don't mind. Checking the vacuum. I sucked on the opening, and I can hear and feel air coming into my mouth from the distributor. Is that normal? Ed

[Don Coatney]

Thanks Greg, The plate moved and it snapped back. Pretty strong spring in there. One last question, if you don't mind. Checking the vacuum. I sucked on the opening, and I can hear and feel air coming into my mouth from the distributor. Is that normal? Ed

The breaker plate should move when a negative pressure is applied to the vacuum pot. There should be no external air movement unless the diaphram in the vacuum pot is ruptured. Sounds like your diaphram need replacment. Terril Machine in Texas (check the links section on the main web page supporting this forum for contact information) rebuilds these vacuum pots.

[central52]

Thanks Don, Will do as suggested. Ed

[central52]

I know I'm getting to sound like a pest. But, that breaker plate movement concerns me. I took off the vacuum pot, and can easily move the plate. Now, it moved with a moderate push with the screwdriver, and I had to push it back. Is it supposed to move very easily and come back by itself or does it need a little pressure to do it back and forth? Ed

[Don Coatney]

Ed;

The plate is spring loaded and the home position with the vacuum advance connected is in the full clockwise position as you look down at the points. You may need to remove the breaker plate and inspect the springs. Make sure everything is lubed up and free moving and the springs are in place and not broken.

[central52]

Don, I took off breaker plate. The springs are intact. Both look in good shape. The little spring has tension, but the big spring seems loose. When I put the end of the screwdriver in the big spring it will move back and forth a little. There is no tension. What do you think? Ed

[Don Coatney]

Don, I took off breaker plate. The springs are intact. Both look in good shape. The little spring has tension, but the big spring seems loose. When I put the end of the screwdriver in the big spring it will move back and forth a little. There is no tension. What do you think? Ed

There are tension values published for these springs. I do not have my books with me to post them.

Anyone else have a MoTors manual or other publication that lists the distributor spring information?

[jgreg53]

Greg. the part number must have changed for the plug cables at TSC.  Your box showed part number 0236693.  The new part number appears to be 23663599. I assume it's the same wires.  The price matches.  BTW I have the same problem with wires from AB.  And they're not long enough.

[DJ194950]

On 9/17/2007 at 8:13 AM, Don Coatney said:

Anyone else have a MoTors manual or other publication that lists the distributor spring information?

The motors manual I have all flat sixes and almost everything else as 17-20. I assume that is inch pounds?? I could not find what measure they used, so?

DJ

[medium_jon]

On 9/3/2007 at 8:45 AM, greg g said:

Hope this helps.

That was a great description of what needs to happen. I think my son and I could follow that @greg g.  Thanks

[jgreg53]

My mistake. I guess it was Don who had the pics of the spark plug wires container showing the part #. 

[jgreg53]

ok guys.   i got the wires from TSC and put them on.  Now it won't start.  The firing order is right and the rotor is pointing to the number one on the cap when number one is top dead center.  The instructions with the wires didn't say to remove the insulation and expose the core wire before attaching the clip on the end.  Should I have done that?

[jgreg53]

Also, It's cranking like the firing order is wrong or the timing is way off.  It was running with the old wires with a miss and a skip at idle.