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Los_Control

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Looking good. The nice thing about stainless trim as opposed to chrome is that you have the same material through the whole piece and not just a plating. Filing, grinding, sanding, and polishing can smooth out all of the small dings and remove any discoloration. Below is my favorite video - he does a great job explaining the process.

 

 

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I have a question on the distribution tube, as far as I understand it, is just a hollow tube and should be able to slide a piece of flat bar all the way to the end?

I am getting about 16"-18" in and seems pretty solid with crap, can just whack it some more with a hammer and get to the end.

While at the same time, I can run a hose sprayer set on jet, and the water goes straight through and comes out the welsh plug openings.

Seems pretty clear and ready to put back together, feel better if got the flat bar all the way to the end.

I guess I just feel uncomfortable beating the crap out of something, all I can figure I am destroying is mineral deposits?

 

Spent some more time on the rest of the grill bars, may have lost some sleep over how the bottom bar would turn out .... not perfect but getting closer to polish, will sleep good tonight  ;)

Now I need to drive to sweetwater tomorrow and buy a bench vice. I am not sure how I keep getting away with working on things and not having one.

Now I need one to hold the dolly, then would have 2 hands to hold the metal and work the hammer.

Soon will need to bench bleed a master cylinder .... sigh ... if I had a bench vice, would have used it 100 times already.

 

 

 

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If the wallet allows get a 6" jawed vice. Next best of course 4"-5" will do ya. With the smaller ones a couple of 6-10" of 1/8" to 3/8" thick angle helps a lot!?

Happy huntin'.

 

DJ

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I think 6" would be fine, what am looking for., settle for 4" but hoping not needed to settle .... just hard when you live out in the middle of nowhere.

 

I wish I bought a 6" bench grinder. I shopped and baught the 8", I bought a pedestal for it to sit on, that way can push it in the corner and pull it out as needed.

The 8" was a total mistake, it has so much torque, I cant keep it in one position ... unless I bolt it to the floor, that negates the use of the stand to push it in the corner.

When I shut it off, I think it takes a full 5 minutes for the wheels to actually stop turning.  Great grinder but a little bit more then I need in a small shop.

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If I were you I’d quit messing around trying to clean out the inside of the distribution tube and I’d be working on pulling it out to replace it with a new one. The purpose of it is to evenly distribute coolant flow down the length of the block, including a certain amount of coolant flow focused on the valve areas. It’s very unlikely you’ll be able to get it cleaned out by hammering a piece of steel into it, without damaging it. It tapers down at it gets towards the rear of the block. Best to focus on getting it extracted and then clean out the block passage to that a new one will slide right back in. 

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1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

I think 6" would be fine, what am looking for., settle for 4" but hoping not needed to settle .... just hard when you live out in the middle of nowhere.

 

I wish I bought a 6" bench grinder. I shopped and baught the 8", I bought a pedestal for it to sit on, that way can push it in the corner and pull it out as needed.

The 8" was a total mistake, it has so much torque, I cant keep it in one position ... unless I bolt it to the floor, that negates the use of the stand to push it in the corner.

When I shut it off, I think it takes a full 5 minutes for the wheels to actually stop turning.  Great grinder but a little bit more then I need in a small shop.

Not sure what you've got available in your area but I've had great luck with the masterforce vice I got from menards. I've abused it quite a bit and other than the handle getting bent(I was using it as a press and using a cheater bar on the handle) it's still 100% the same as when I bought it. 

This one is quite similar to what I have. 

https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/hand-tools/clamps-vises/masterforce-reg-5-1-2-reversible-bench-vise-with-swivel-base/65155/p-1453088413107-c-9135.htm?tid=-7509889267200335726&ipos=6

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32 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

If I were you I’d quit messing around trying to clean out the inside of the distribution tube

I trust your opinion Merle .... I got to put it back together and see if I already fixed it.

First I had to pull the ss grill bars before putting the radiator back in, that is done.

When I first started, I sprayed water into the distribution tube and it poured back out the front of the tube.

Now it goes right out the back around the corner and out the welsh plugs like it should.

I really may have fixed it already, just fretting over nothing ... I am pretty good for that.

Spent my whole working career the same way. As a remodel carpenter I would fix things, then fret for days on how I could fix it even better.

I still have 2 gallons of vinegar to soak it some more once put back together.

I can at least put it back together with the distributor installed and run a compression check while it soaks in vinegar, new coil wire came in the mail yesterday the plug wires may be here tomorrow and start it back up again ... old ones are to bad to put back on.

17 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

Not sure what you've got available in your area but I've had great luck with the masterforce vice I got from menards.

that would probably work just fine, I checked shipping and only $20 to my door, I expected the weight to cost more. I only have a Ace hardware and sears outlet in the town 30 miles from me. Otherwise is a 70 mile trip to Abilene where would have most of the big name stores available, but Ace is pretty big store and well stocked, same with sears so I have hope there.

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3 hours ago, Los_Control said:

115  60  75  85  75  90  :(

Not exactly what was hoping for, does run and maybe with a long drive in the country will either go up ... or down.

 

settled on a 6" wilton vice from sears, free delivery ... ordered this morning and still not shipped, see how it goes.

did you get the one with the free hammer?  https://www.amazon.com/Wilton-WIL11128BH-Hammer-BASH-Combo/dp/B00WH6JIEO/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1540000892&sr=8-5&keywords=wilton+vise

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6 hours ago, Los_Control said:

115  60  75  85  75  90  :(

Not exactly what was hoping for, does run and maybe with a long drive in the country will either go up ... or down.

 

Did you try shooting some oil into the cylinders? If the numbers come up with oil, it is most likely rings. If the numbers don’t change, it most likely indicates a burnt valve or piston damage. Do you have a lot of crankcase pressure?

 

If it were mine, I would pull the head to see what is going on. Head gaskets are relatively inexpensive and you will learn a lot about your engine in a short amount of time.

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8 hours ago, Young Ed said:

did you get the one with the free hammer?

Sears did not list that one, this is the one

https://www.sears.com/wilton-11106-6-steel-bench-vise-3/p-SPM8864483623?plpSellerId=CPO Outlets&prdNo=15&blockNo=15&blockType=G15

 

5 hours ago, Jomani said:

Did you try shooting some oil into the cylinders?

I did not, The gentleman I bought the truck from, he knew some history on the previous owner and use to see the truck running around town about 10 years ago, I say closer to 15 years it has been sitting.

I had to fix a bad wire going from coil to distributor, but it started and ran with very little effort. Of course I soaked the cylinders with atf for a week and also did a fresh oil change.

Had to fix a busted T-stat housing bolt, and been fighting the blocked coolant passages since. So it has very little run time on the motor since it was wakened from a deep sleep.

Think the cooling issue is fixed now, maybe start it back up today and check .... still waiting for my new plug wires to come in the mail, the old ones are pretty crusty and falling apart when you pick them up.

 

I am hoping it will not take to much $$$ to keep this motor, it is the original engine and it matches the number on the title, to me that is kinda cool and like to keep it that way.

Same time I have another 1949 truck sitting in another state, now is turning into a parts truck for this one, and I have a rebuilt 1952 flathead 218. But it is not the original.

So I need to make a choice, will I put big bucks into this engine to keep it original, or would I swap in the rebuilt engine I already own?

 

Thinking just maybe, I get the brakes and lights fixed, get it registered and take her out for a drive maybe this motor will improve on compression. As is it has some blow by and puffs some smoke when you goose it, I can live with that for awhile as other things get fixed.

 

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Sounds like keeping it original is the way to go. 

 

If you have stuck rings, which it sounds like may be the case, the fix can be very inexpensive. Pull the head and oil pan, remove the ridge from the top of the cylinder, and pop out the pistons. Soak the pistons, free up the rings, and clean up any excess carbon, and put them back in. A couple hour job, but it does typically require two people.

 

Running the engine to see if it will improve can be risky. The number two cylinder is most likely not firing. You risk washing the cylinder with unburned gas, scoring the cylinder, burning the piston, etc. If the rings are still stuck after getting it up to operating temperature, putting a load on it will force them to expand one way or the other - my experience has been that they break, or worse break the ring lands on the pistons.

 

Hopefully all goes well.

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When I tore into the '48 flathead, I found a stuck compression ring on #6.  I tried to remove it, but my 16 yr-old self got carried away with a small screwdriver + hammer and broke the piston land.  I bought 1 new piston from the local parts store, didn't know that I needed to weigh it to see if it matched the other piston.  I eventually put the engine back together, drove it for 10 yrs before it developed another problem (probably a spun bearing)...but when it was running, I noticed an odd vibration at high rpm and think it was that piston was out of balance with the rest of the pistons because of a weight difference.  My reasoning for the spun bearing was a problem I ran into during assembly with the new rod bearings not staying seated in the rod notch...I didn't know of such things as plasti-gage and crankshaft clearance back when I was in high school...I was told to put new connecting rod bearings and piston rings in the engine, new gaskets too (at least those I could get to while the engine was in the truck), fix the brakes + fuel system, then drive it...so I did, for 10 blissfully ignorant years...

 

Thanks to studying the info on this site (plus some other experience collected over the last 30 yrs), I have found that there is a better way to approach resurrecting an engine that has sat for 20+ yrs.  My next rebuilds will include removing the engine, carefully stripping the engine block and having it and the head hot-tanked for sludge removal before magna-fluxing for any cracks.  I have already had the displeasure of rebuilding 2 diesel engines and they blew apart within a year from a cracked water jacket, and have seen plenty of potential rebuilds stopped when a crack was located at a main cap bearing or head bolt thread bore that was not readily visible until the magna-flux.  The extra expense upfront on the block + head will determine if I need to go to plan B and try a different engine from my inventory...

 

I am also reminded of the stories of the guys who drove these beasts for years without changing the oil, just topped it off when it needed it...and the potential problems that caused...before the trucks were put out to pasture...

 

Keeping it original is a great idea, and you may be able to put a small amount of work into the truck to bring it back to life and enjoy it for years.  But the risk is there for ya to be straddling a potentially expensive time bomb that could get ya without warning.  At a minimum, put some Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase oil to loosen up the rings from the pistons, that may be all ya really need :cool:

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18 hours ago, JBNeal said:

At a minimum, put some Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase oil to loosen up the rings from the pistons, that may be all ya really need :cool:

I am starting to feel a plan here,

I do need to change the oil. I am using castrol 10/40 GTX, I know some say to not use a detergent oil, I figure to keep changing the oil until the motor is clean and the oil stays clean.

I will add the mm to the new oil,

Goal is to start it back up and check the cooling issue is fixed, then get some antifreeze in it for winter.

Then drain the oil while it is warm, first oil change it was cold and thick.

Then when I move on to brakes and wiring, will be a few weeks to get completed, I can add some marvel mystery oil in the cylinders, and let the rings soak some more.

If no improvement on compression by this time, I will prepare to pull the head and pan and go with new rings and bearings if the cylinders mic out good.

 

I suspect at some point this motor has been rebuilt, the original speedo showed 30k, I assume it to be 130K miles on the truck. Pretty sure by 100k these motors would need to be rebuilt.

And the engine has silver paint on it, I doubt that it is original 69 year old paint on the engine, was removed at some time and new paint added when worked on.

Very possible, all was done was rings and bearings then? Possible the rings are not stuck, cylinders just wore out and needs a rebuild. Will be a pandora's box opening this engine up.

Would feel more comfortable starting on the engine, after the brakes and wiring completed, want to keep momentum going.

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My '49 230 still has some silver paint on it after all these years...I verified with the build card that it is the original engine, and when I opened it up in '04, the innerds were in very good shape with no stuck rings, near pristine cylinder bores, tight bearings, ok valves (but loose guides)...the oilpan had sludge that was partially submerging the pickup strainer, and crud was in the water jacket ckear up into the top freeze plugs, but that was relatively painless to clean out...I didn't know of a good way to replace the front and rear main seals back then with the engine in the truck, but I did find an article on how to replace the valve guides, and that old engine came back to life, running as smooth as a sewing machine, but leaked oil out of those 2 seals enough that I had to stop driving it a few years ago...that plus the wiring was shot...

A word of caution:  engine flush treatments will not work on these flathead engines if you follow their instructions to the letter, but will work if you follow their intent...typically, these flushes instruct to warm the engine up in 10 minutes, then let the engine idle for 10-30 minutes, then drain and refill engine with crankcase oil...I tried flushing annually for years, following the instructions, and noticed the drained oil would be cold, not scalding hot as warned by the flush instructions...in discussions on this site, I realized that the flathead block has so much mass that it takes a good while longer for it to warm up enough for the flush to dissolve sludge in the block passages, nooks, crannies, and sump.  So all those years of flushing had little effect other than to flush my $$$ down the drain.  Idling for engine warmup isn't enough; driving the truck around until the side of the block is hot to the touch is what is required, then add the flush and follow the instructions on treatment.  I did this with an older non-flathead engine, and I could see the difference as the oil stayed cleaner longer in subsequent service intervals :cool:

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3 hours ago, JBNeal said:

My '49 230 still has some silver paint on it after all these years...I verified with the build card that it is the original engine, and when I opened it up in '04, the innerds were in very good shape with no stuck rings, near pristine cylinder bores, tight bearings, ok valves (but loose guides)...the oilpan had sludge that was partially submerging the pickup strainer, and crud was in the water jacket ckear up into the top freeze plugs, but that was relatively painless to clean out...I didn't know of a good way to replace the front and rear main seals back then with the engine in the truck, but I did find an article on how to replace the valve guides, and that old engine came back to life, running as smooth as a sewing machine, but leaked oil out of those 2 seals enough that I had to stop driving it a few years ago...that plus the wiring was shot...

A word of caution:  engine flush treatments will not work on these flathead engines if you follow their instructions to the letter, but will work if you follow their intent...typically, these flushes instruct to warm the engine up in 10 minutes, then let the engine idle for 10-30 minutes, then drain and refill engine with crankcase oil...I tried flushing annually for years, following the instructions, and noticed the drained oil would be cold, not scalding hot as warned by the flush instructions...in discussions on this site, I realized that the flathead block has so much mass that it takes a good while longer for it to warm up enough for the flush to dissolve sludge in the block passages, nooks, crannies, and sump.  So all those years of flushing had little effect other than to flush my $$$ down the drain.  Idling for engine warmup isn't enough; driving the truck around until the side of the block is hot to the touch is what is required, then add the flush and follow the instructions on treatment.  I did this with an older non-flathead engine, and I could see the difference as the oil stayed cleaner longer in subsequent service intervals :cool:

Back when sludged up engines where  common, '60s, lots of parafin oils, no PCV etc, we flushed a lot of them.  Always covered the radiator when idling and get them to 200+ for several minutes.  Actually get them to near boiling for a while,  That gets the oil hot also.

 

Pull spark plugs, a little penetrating oil of choice in each hole, let it set for a few minutes and change oil. 

But, I've never had success with cleaning the sump with those.  Better to start with a clean pan.  Pull, clean reinstall.  Then do the internal flush.  that also gives you the opportunity to be sure the pickup screen is clear.

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I am not actually trying to run or use a flush, just straight clean new oil, I figure it will take a few oil changes to get it looking clean.

But this time I will use the marvel mystery oil in it, see if it will save me from pulling the pistons and re-ringing it.

 

I know some people that swear by adding thick honey products into the oil, like Lucas .... I will not add products like that.

Although I do think they have a purpose and a place, same with sea foam or marvel mystery oil. I feel they are good products and have a time and place to be used.

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On several flatheads, I found the valve areas full of sludge, as well as the oilpans...I did not fully clean the valve areas, and after 10k miles, the sludge had not appeared to decrease significantly...it should be noted that the sludge has to be scraped out of the oilpans and pressure-washed out of valve areas...if there is significant accumulation in the oilpan, the sludge will break down very slowly during engine operation and continue to contaminate the crankcase oil.

But there is a shortcut:  I fabricated a U-shaped scraper that I could fit thru the oilpan drain and was able to clear out a significant amount of sludge without dropping the pan.  I then added about 2 quarts of diesel to the drained and plugged oilpan, let it sit for a couple of weeks, drained and scraped again...repeated until the diesel I collected was clear...then I figured that I had removed a significant amount of sludge and could go back into operation :cool:

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I fabricated  :P

Been picking on this poor coil bracket just because it was broke and easy to replace. But I think the 3rd time I may actually be able to use it again.

Still waiting on the dang spark plug wires to show up, they got delayed and am asked to be patient.

I do have marvel mystery oil sitting in the cylinders while being patient.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Los_Control said:

I fabricated  :P

Been picking on this poor coil bracket just because it was broke and easy to replace. But I think the 3rd time I may actually be able to use it again.

Still waiting on the dang spark plug wires to show up, they got delayed and am asked to be patient.

I do have marvel mystery oil sitting in the cylinders while being patient.

 

lol, I have about 4 sitting in a tote...

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Back in Washington with Molly and my parts bin, think I have 2 spares also.

Why I am willing to practice welding on this broken coil bracket. The second photo, can see where I burned through the thin metal in a previous attempt to fix a bad previous owner made bracket. I still need to replace this bracket, now it can get me by until I do.

 

I bought this welder a few months ago when I saw it on sale, first welder I have ever owned and used. And the photos above is my real first attempt at making something out of metal.

Today I will attempt to fix a stress crack on my hood. Now the hood is not such a easy thing to replace if I mess it up, now I have enough confidense to tackle it.

 

Also today I may attempt to make up a set of spark plug wires. I have a new xtra set for my chevy, I need to change the boots on them to fit the old school dodge distributor cap.

The new wires I ordered for the dodge made it from Illinois o Texas, 240 miles away on the 19th, and they have not moved since. Getting tired of waiting on them.

 

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Carb is kicking my butt  :D

Seems I  have earned the opportunity to take apart the carb one more time.

I picked up a bucket of carb cleaner and after letting it soak overnight, will use the complete carb rebuild kit to re-assemble.

 

As it is, the accelerator pump feels and sounds good, I can not see any fuel squirting in the throat of the carb.   Maybe I just need to put on my glasses.

 

Look down the throat, more raw fuel sitting in the intake.

 

I just need to slow down and take my time, such a simple carb I am not paying attention to details  :(

 

 

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I gave up today and ordered a rebuilt carb from rockauto, kinda disappointing but tired of guessing.

I think this carb should work as is, it is clean as a whistle inside, accelerator pump is giving a good squirt. I measured the float and it seemed correct, I went and lowered it some anyways.

Still it acts as if getting no fire and does not try to start.

I thought maybe it was 180 out and moved the distributor, then it started popping through the carburetor and knew it was correct in the first place, moved it back.

 

I laid out all the plugs on top of the head connected, turned her over and get a nice blue spark from each plug.

I had added some mm oil to the cylinders and the bad cylinder that was 60 psi is now almost 75 psi, others came up also, plenty of compression to run,and I know it did run before messing with the carb.

I swapped out the new "wet" champions yesterday with dry acdelco, no difference,

 

I do not think putting the new carb on it right now will make a difference, but will put my mind at ease and start looking at other areas.

Kinda thinking maybe sorta, it is so flooded from when the carb was stuck wide open, it just needs to sit and dry out for awhile?

There is still some gas sitting in the intake, I have mopped it with a rag and then it shows back up, think pulling the carb and the plugs and let it sit open to dry out is only choice at this point.

Next Wed the new carb will be here and then try it again.

 

Going to go out and try one more thing,  One other thing I added when I rebuilt the carb, a solid vacuum line to replace the old cut and spliced line that was on it.

May be possible that it is not allowing me to move the distributor enough to get it to fire, although I looked at it before I removed the distributor and think it is really close now as it was then.

Grasping at straws .... maybe it sitting overnight has dried up enough and will fire today .. who knows what the mopar Gods are thinking today  :D

 

 

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I think you're right to think the new carb won't help starting.  When such things baffle me it's always back to basics.  If you have spark at the new plugs, review the firing order and distributor rotation direction.  More than once the right order in the wrong direction has foiled a mechanic.

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