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Overheating. 210 in a 160 thermo


Dodgy49

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Ok I have read the tech sections, 

I am a little freaked out and I don’t want to blow this thing up. 

I checked the thermostat 160 degree. Did the hot water test it did open.  it’s installed the correct way, pellet toward the block. I Added a 1/8 bypass hole (which I used on my bomber race cars) 

used a turkey fryer thermometer at the radiator fill. Newer aluminum three tube radiator. Stock guage reading 212, fryer reading 190 -200 very slight downward trend. But the overall trend is hotter not cooler. I am running in the garage at an idle and some higher revs. This is the same equipment the original owner of the engine was running in his Wayfarer with no issue.  At the lower temps I could see a cycle of the thermostat but the temp just kept climbing.  I have a time lapse that shows the fryer at 200 but it’s much to big to load here. 

What do ya think stuck thermostat? 

28F1371E-1702-45AC-B939-A45C1852BC06.jpeg.1703913ef25b340eea43ba9a966ecca7.jpeg4A46B087-EDE4-439F-BE16-D0EEF7ACDB8C.jpeg.7410892b968aa2e2e31b162a5c0999f4.jpeg

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You checked the thermostat and it opens at the right temperature, so thermostat is ok. Are top and bottom radiator hoses getting hot when temperature gauge shows overheating? If the top hose and top of the radiator are not scalding hot, there is flow restriction somewhere. It could be in radiator core, or in the engine. Engine obstruction could be due to clogged passages between block and cylinder head. This may happen if head gasket is graphite style and engine overheated previously. When graphite stuff is compressed, it may extrude and block coolant passages.

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  I have questions..  Is there water flow  in radiator  when running at operating temps. ?  Is top hose ,bottom hose ,and radiator  all the same temps. at operating temps? if it's flowing,  you need to check for a   head gasket leak,   pull oil fill cap, is condensation present ?    pull water pump belt off .  remove cap ,start motor .    are there bubbles  present in  radiator  when revving  or leave belt on and let motor idle  look at the bubbles , do they go away  in a couple of minute of idling ..compression bubbles look different than aeration  bubbles .. or go buy block checking kit, see if  changes from blue to yellow...https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7001006... It would be good  to invest in a  IR  temp gun ..https://www.amazon.com/HDE-Non-Contact-Thermometer-Temperature-Functional/dp/B00QYX6F5G.  cheap and good for everything.  don't get me started on all the problems this thing can help find..I typed bubbles many times..    Or pull all plugs look into cylinder too see if any   piston tops are clean..

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How is your radiator? If it were mine, I would remove the radiator and have it flow tested if you have not done this yet. A partially plugged up radiator core can cause the engine to run hotter than it should, especially at idle and high speed. I have had this problem before and my radiator had to have a new replacement core. Good luck to you.

John R

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Sser2, 

I’ll check the lower hose today. 

Torqczar,

Yes there is flow at temp, if I rev the engine the level drops a bit then comes back up as the rpms drop. The bubbles are larger and clear. I’ll have to check both hoses this time. 

Just thinking aloud. The fan is not parallel to the radiator it’s 3/4 inch on the bottom and about 1/12 at the top. In addition to all the things mentioned I may add a box fan in front to see if that helps. 

Thanks for your replies I know this is a worn out subject 

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I’d get one of those infrared digital thermometers about $25 or less, (harbor frt) and check the radiator outlet and inlet hose temperatures. You should see a temperature difference of 10-20 degrees F. I had a similar but more serious temp problem with one of my darts. What I saw was 205 or more on the outlet and like 145 on the inlet. It appeared as though the water was flowing. NOT. The water pump impeller was spinning free on the shaft inside the pump, it was so smooth, made no noise,  like it was riding on a polished bearing. Changed the pump - problem fixed. By the way, the faulty pump was brand new. I spent a lot of time and effort trying to fix that problem. I’ve never seen something like that before...probably a part made overseas....

 

Other things to consider, hoses will sometimes collapse partially restricting water flow. These old engines sometimes don’t get proper maintenance - maybe the block is full of crud and sediment. There is a plug on the drivers side of the block to drain it and could be used to flush as well...check it out.

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Ok I have found the problem. 

I flushed the both the radiator and block. I attached a sock to the outlet of each and started against the flow. The had radiator had a little bit of grit in the radiator , but the block was clean. 

I removed the thermostat and reassembled everything. Filled with water and ran it. Ran hot again. Put a box fan in front of it, came down a bit, brought up the RPMs and the temp readily came down. So the three tube radiator and the mid-alignment of the fan isn’t drawing enough air at idle. 

So im going to get a new thermostat (just cuz) and look for a 6 volt radiator fan. 

Thank you everyone for your input.

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You know that the thermostat doesn't have any big effect on your normal operating temp.  The listed temp for the stat is when it opens and allows coolant to flow to the radiator. So in theory a 160 might run a bit cooler because the full flow starts at 20 degrees cooler but after 15 minutes of running that difference is gone.  Rule of thumb high temp at idle and low seed operation is air flow problem. High temps at high speed is coolant flow problem.  Also water absorbs and releases heat better than anti freeze. If you operate and store at 20 degrees or higher, modify you mix.  My car runs 70%water, 30% coolant, it hardly goes over 170.  Mix is good to O or so. And boiling point is about 220.

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  I can't tell by the pictures what type thermostat housing you have. Unless it's a newer engine, you should have a 1" bypass hose from the top of the pump back to the housing.There is a special  fitting that goes on top of the pump. Could you post a picture of the front of the head, the clearance of the water pump? That would tell you internal or external bypass. The plumbing might be wrong. 

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On 9/16/2018 at 7:22 AM, torqczar said:

  good point . you can see combustion chamber,  same thing.   missed it by 2 inches, sorry.     

 

On 9/16/2018 at 5:43 AM, Don Coatney said:

How can you see the piston tops through the spark plug hole? The spark plugs are located directly above the intake valves.

 

Spit2.jpg

I have an inspection camera I use, made by Ryobi. It fits through the spark plug hole fairly easy and can angle a bit to see the top of the piston when the intake valve is closed and the piston is toward the top. Works better on overhead valve engines than it does the flatheads though.

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1 hour ago, johnsartain said:

 

I have an inspection camera I use, made by Ryobi. It fits through the spark plug hole fairly easy and can angle a bit to see the top of the piston when the intake valve is closed and the piston is toward the top. Works better on overhead valve engines than it does the flatheads though.

 

Good idea. Is that a colonoscopy camera??️

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5 minutes ago, Don Coatney said:

 

Good idea. Is that a colonoscopy camera??️

 

Earn a few extra $$ for the old vechicle projects??.  ?

The work bench and a adaptor to show results on a Big monitor?? ?

DJ

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A fan shroud will help the stock fan pull air through the radiator so you may not need the extra fan although it could be a nice addition if you have a lot of stop and go driving or parade events in mind..  What concerns me is the word "bubbles" which usually means a head gasket is out.  Are they really bubbles or is is just water movement.  I didn't hear any mention of the water distribution tube either.

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Ok this is the thermostat configuration. I’m thinking it’s an internal bypass.  The engine was out of a 50 Wayfarer... not sure if it was original, but it was running that was light years ahead of the engine the car came with. The bubbles were just coolant moving around they stopped after a cycle of the thermostat 

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Edited by Dodgy49
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I think that's an external bypass head, hard to tell but I don't see the bump on the front...

Also, my 49 Wayfarer has an external bypass head (no bump) but an internal bypass thermostat housing as you have.  Several other Wayfarers I have seen are set up the same way.

 

Adam

 

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  My 47 Dodge truck has a government number on the block. 224979CAD, so it's a special number. After getting it rebuilt, I see the bump on the head and the internal bypass hole above the distribution tube on the block that flows to the head, making it internal. There is a 51 embossed on the block, just under the distributor. But along the way, parts were interchanged and it was plumbed like a external bypass. I won't use the bypass housing that was on it. I thought internal bypass came out in later 1951 engines. So Adam, I am still learning. It appears that a bypass isn't needed, since yours doesn't overheat, and that is not Dodgy49's problem. Running a pressure cap? I thought that also could be a problem. My distribution tube came out in one piece eventually, but a lot of crud behind the core plugs at the base of the block. They tanked it a few times to get it clean. So it's always distilled water and antifreeze 50-50, in anything I own. I bought a 47 2 ton grain truck for parts and it had glycerin in the system, never saw that before.   

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For no other reason than to heat the intake manifold, mine now has a 5/16 line running from the rear of the head to the top inlet of the water pump, effectively making a bypass. Ran fine before I replaced the intake when it had no bypass. 

I’m running a 4 pound cap and I rarely see 190  on the hottest days, mostly 170-180.

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  • 2 weeks later...

9 foot, 

sorry for the slow response, 

I haven’t found the serial number yet, (hadn’t looked yet)

I was able to move the radiator up about an inch and the fan blades are below the bottom of the top tank, and in the fins, it is better at idle and drops right off at 25mph. So there is still a flow problem, I will start mocking up a shroud. 

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AB739715-977A-44C2-8FBF-966A0501674C.jpeg

Edited by Dodgy49
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  Hey Dodgy, I figured the topic was moot, since Adam's post. The picture that you can see your fan tips, looks like you have the internal head. That would mean you your engine should be a 51 or later.  Looking at that picture, your engine number should be on the flat above the core plug on the left front of the engine. If that number doesn't jive with the factory numbers at T137, then, some blocks have a casting number under the dist. and rear of the  oil fill tube base, with what appears  to be a casting date, on some blocks.The blocks that I have vary. So Adam's and others run cool. Why doesn't yours? My car and truck have a 115 degree tubing elbow with two short, straight hose connections to the lower radiator and pump. Could your, what appears to be one piece hose,  pump to lower radiator , be collapsing because of the different flow of a honeycomb versus a three tube radiator? Other than that it's pulling the three core plugs that you can get at, the pump and distribution tube and see why you aren't getting flow. Flushing  doesn't do crap to any creek water added to any high temperature block like a mopar flathead.

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Dodgy49,

 

Is the radiator the same as the previous owner had with his engine? Reason I ask is because the flow rate through a radiator effects the temp the engine will run at. If the flow is to slow due to restriction either in the rad or the block it runs hot. if the flow is to fast through the rad the water isn't cooled down enough and will also run hot.

 

Joe

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