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6V Battery Cables


mmcdowel

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each motor is different...that is why it is so important to read your specification in the repair manual and then you can test these devices and compare your current pull/voltage drops along with speeds under load or no load conditions.....pushing 6V devices with 12 volt, you have to do the math..

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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Well I got them installed and I would say without a doubt it spins 25% faster.  Volt Ohm meter was squished by the John Deere that other day so I'm just going to count my blessings and call it a day.  I appreciate all the help and feedback as always.  

Fall is approaching in OK....temps have been getting down in the low 90s.....so I'm getting things tidied up for lots of miles in the cooler weather.

 

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I am in the same mode....working yard issues where when you sweat  it is not settling on a fresh stripped metal panel.  Also gathering wood as I get the chance and trying my best to do some shop/car work this fall and winter.  Swap meet season for us is wide open in November as are a number of other events I participate.  Another year and with all the land clearing and other must do's, I still have not run my ducting in the shop for the hydronic heat loop I prepositioned long ago.  

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I'm finishing my masters degree in piddling.  I can work two days in the shop and not finish one single thing.  One day everything is probably going to come together at once and the excitement will kill me.  In the meantime I'll just piddle along.  Putting those cables on required me to have a nap afterwards.

 

 

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5 hours ago, rallyace said:

When I made my post I suspected I would see this as a comment. Here is the technical reply. The torque (and associated power) produced by an electric motor is a direct function of the flux density created by the coils in the motor. The flux density is a function of the construction of the motor.  Motor speed and torque produced are inversely proportional. Maximum torque occurs at what is known as Locked Rotor conditions (zero RPM). As the speed increases, the torque decreases. and the resultant power created will decrease. The motor will attempt to spin faster under load on 12 volts but will be limited by the torque it can produce and the loads created by the internal friction of the moving parts in the engine.

Ahhhh,but what effect does the flux capacitor have on the wobbly wheel?

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5 hours ago, rallyace said:

When I made my post I suspected I would see this as a comment. Here is the technical reply. The torque (and associated power) produced by an electric motor is a direct function of the flux density created by the coils in the motor. The flux density is a function of the construction of the motor.  Motor speed and torque produced are inversely proportional. Maximum torque occurs at what is known as Locked Rotor conditions (zero RPM). As the speed increases, the torque decreases. and the resultant power created will decrease. The motor will attempt to spin faster under load on 12 volts but will be limited by the torque it can produce and the loads created by the internal friction of the moving parts in the engine.

Thank you for the explanation!  My degree is Material Science and I work in Semiconductors, I knew the real answer had to do with work and power but wasn't sure how it applied to electric motors.  Your explanation made it quite clear and I now also understand why a 12V starter will crank an engine over faster than a 6V starter.  Looking back at the 1953 Chrysler current tables I see a huge difference is locked current draw, that's the current the starter initially draws  to get the engine turning over.

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Additional FYI.....out of the clear blue sky now my radio works!!!!!!!!!  Might just be a fluke, but its never worked before.

Once again, just going to be thankful and enjoy listening to it.  I bumped the knob dusting the dash and it came on and hummed for a bit....and came to life.

I may need to go buy some lottery tickets.

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, rhelm1953 said:

 a 12V starter will crank an engine over faster than a 6V starter.

Both 12 V and 6 V motors can be designed to produce the same torque, speed and horsepower.

Power equals to voltage multiplied by current. When cranking, 6V Mopar starter will draw about 400 A at 4 V. Equivalent 12 V starter will draw about 200 A at 8 V. In both cases, power will be the same. 1,600 W (400x4=200x8).

If 6V starter is powered by 12 V battery, the power will be 4 times of that at 6 V, according to Ohm's and Joule's laws.

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8 hours ago, rallyace said:

When I made my post I suspected I would see this as a comment. Here is the technical reply. The torque (and associated power) produced by an electric motor is a direct function of the flux density created by the coils in the motor. The flux density is a function of the construction of the motor.  Motor speed and torque produced are inversely proportional. Maximum torque occurs at what is known as Locked Rotor conditions (zero RPM). As the speed increases, the torque decreases. and the resultant power created will decrease. The motor will attempt to spin faster under load on 12 volts but will be limited by the torque it can produce and the loads created by the internal friction of the moving parts in the engine.

 

Thank you for the more technical explanation. So, will it draw  less current when 12 volt battery is applied to a 6 volt starter motor than 6 volt battery is applied? Or will it be about the same?

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using ohms law and the values stated in the repair manual you have 6 volts applied and 335 amps drawn...doing the math per ohms law...voltage divided by amperage, that equates to a resistance of .0179  now that the resistance is known from using the correct plug ins for the starter we can substitute the 12 volts and we know that volts divided by resistance equals amperage...plugging these in you get.....12 divided by .0179 and get 670.4 amps.....

 

the quick chart for ohms law is at many online sites....

 

this is rough...as actual voltage from different battery and voltage drops vary from car to car..some rounding was used above...

 

 

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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3 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

using ohms law and the values stated in the repair manual you have 6 volts applied and 335 amps drawn...doing the math per ohms law...voltage divided by amperage, that equates to a resistance of .0179  now that the resistance is known from using the correct plug ins for the starter we can substitute the 12 volts and we know that volts divided by resistance equals amperage...plugging these in you get.....12 divided by .0179 and get 670.4 amps.....

 

the quick chart for ohms law is at many online sites....

 

 

Plymouthy, what you are referring to is when the starter motor CANNOT turn the engine over at all, which is the stall of the starter motor. We know that the starter will turn the engine over, and so, the simple ohms law doesn't work. If it was the case, then you would need larger cables for 12 volts and smaller for 6 volts.

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stall current is correct,  I used these given book values and ohms law to try to answer the question above, what if 12v on 6 volt motor.   I used these figures to show the math....then substituting the 12 volts into the equation with all other factors the same,  the increase in the amperage drawn was derived even if LRA.....without things like battery condition, voltage drop, condition of the starter bushings and on and on...there is no way you or I could accurately predict each person actual starter performance and split an amp for exact application...

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I agree Plymouthy, I understand what you did. The other thing to consider is, what will the current draw be if the starter was not connect to the engine, ie the starter was free spinning on a bench? Very little. So for any given engine, it will be somewhere in between these figures.

 

The question is, on the same engine and same starter motor, will there be less, same, or more current draw with 12 volt battery compared to a 6 volt battery? I say its the about similar (actually probably little more because of the extra friction generated)  due to the starter spinning about twice the speed and hence twice the power consumed from the 12 volt battery. 

 

Unfortunately I don't have a 6 volt battery to test with my '28 Chrysler that has a 6 volt starter but is starting and running on a 12 volt battery, so I cant do the test. Post #14 shows actual figures from a reasonably fair test that was performed by a member of the AACA.

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25 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

if the flux capacitor is of the correct value it will settle the oscillation in the wheel by coupling it to ground.

Ok,now I see! Thanks!

 

But what if he doesn't have a flux capacitor test gauge to make sure his flux capacitor is fluxing correctly? A guy could lose a eyeball or three just looking at it.

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