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Fuel not getting to all cylinders


TylerB46

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Hey guys, it's me again with more problems. I've been trying to start my 53 dodge 230 after it's fresh rebuild, and I've got good compression, fuel flowing through the carb, but still the engine wouldn't hit. So I took the plugs out and 1&2 were totally dry 3-5 had a little fuel on them, and #6 had a good amount of fuel. So the issue now is I'm either not getting fuel to some cylinders and too little to others. Any help would be great.

 

Edited by TylerB46
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First I would pull the valve covers and verify all valve are working and nothing is sticking. Second while in there I would check the camshaft timing to verify the cam gears are correctly installed. The manual has the specs for the degrees the #1 valves open and close. You can check the degree marks on the crank pulley.

Then do a static timing of the ignition. Are your sure the ignition isn't 180 degrees out? (This is why a you need to do a static timing)

 

Does it pop or backfire or is it totally dead?

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17 minutes ago, P15-D24 said:

First I would pull the valve covers and verify all valve are working and nothing is sticking. Second while in there I would check the camshaft timing to verify the cam gears are correctly installed. The manual has the specs for the degrees the #1 valves open and close. You can check the degree marks on the crank pulley.

Then do a static timing of the ignition. Are your sure the ignition isn't 180 degrees out? (This is why a you need to do a static timing)

 

Does it pop or backfire or is it totally dead?

The only thing it does is smoke from the exhaust and crank vent. 

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20 minutes ago, P15-D24 said:

First I would pull the valve covers and verify all valve are working and nothing is sticking. Second while in there I would check the camshaft timing to verify the cam gears are correctly installed. The manual has the specs for the degrees the #1 valves open and close. You can check the degree marks on the crank pulley.

Then do a static timing of the ignition. Are your sure the ignition isn't 180 degrees out? (This is why a you need to do a static timing)

 

Does it pop or backfire or is it totally dead?

As far as timing goes, the cam is in time because I put a whole new timing set on it and everything was aligned, and it sparks right on TDC.

Edited by TylerB46
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Just now, Don Coatney said:

Three things required for an engine to run. Fuel, Compression, and Spark delivered at the correct time. Have you done a compression test?

 

fromthebook.jpg

 

The first test I did showed 30psi to all cylinders, but I believe it's gone up some since it's been cranked over so much lately. I need to do another test, but just haven't gotten around too it.

 

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I doubt it will run a 30. I've seen them barely run at 50 but never that low. I would do a leak down test to verify the valves are closing/not leaking. Never heard of a rebuild having that low of compression and it tells me something mechanical is seriously not right.  

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7 minutes ago, P15-D24 said:

I doubt it will run a 30. I've seen them barely run at 50 but never that low. I would do a leak down test to verify the valves are closing/not leaking. Never heard of a rebuild having that low of compression and it tells me something mechanical is seriously not right.  

I'll do another check tomorrow and see how it does. I really do feel like that reading may have been wrong, or it's gone up since I've been turning it over so much, I put my finger over one of the plug holes earlier and I couldn't keep my finger on it.

Edited by TylerB46
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12 hours ago, P15-D24 said:

I doubt it will run a 30. I've seen them barely run at 50 but never that low. I would do a leak down test to verify the valves are closing/not leaking. Never heard of a rebuild having that low of compression and it tells me something mechanical is seriously not right.  

Okay so I did another check and 1-2-5-6 have 50psi and 3-4 have 40. When I say rebuild pretty much all I did was put a new timing set and replace all the gaskets. I didn’t put a ring kit in it because before the truck was parked my uncle said it had been rebuilt and the cylinders looked really good with minimal wear. 

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for the record, what procedure do you do prior to removing the chain and gears when replacing said items.  Second, have you done a wet test of the compression?  There is an equal 20% difference with cylinders 3 and 4.  Smoking through the vent and exhaust pipe...this is signs of trying to fire but with insufficient compression it is not enough for good combustion to take place and thus any premature burning or improper burn is probably bypassing the rings and even to a degree possible carbon fouled valves or sticking valves.  I would suggest trying to up compression by sealing the rings with adding oil direct to the cylinders..if this fails to raise compression, next I would pull the head for to inspect for signs of obvious failing mechanical conditions required to promote compression.  Then we still have not ruled out the 180 timing issue.....

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16 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

for the record, what procedure do you do prior to removing the chain and gears when replacing said items.  Second, have you done a wet test of the compression?  There is an equal 20% difference with cylinders 3 and 4.  Smoking through the vent and exhaust pipe...this is signs of trying to fire but with insufficient compression it is not enough for good combustion to take place and thus any premature burning or improper burn is probably bypassing the rings and even to a degree possible carbon fouled valves or sticking valves.  I would suggest trying to up compression by sealing the rings with adding oil direct to the cylinders..if this fails to raise compression, next I would pull the head for to inspect for signs of obvious failing mechanical conditions required to promote compression.  Then we still have not ruled out the 180 timing issue.....

The valves were removed and lap sanded and given new springs, I’m not sure what you mean by what I did before removing the chain and gears. This is my first engine build so I’m still really new to this. I checked the timing and it’s sparking in the right patern TDC on the compression stroke. 

Edited by TylerB46
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as the engine is four stroke many novice mechanics forget that the cam turns once to two crank revs and is the very device (cam) that drives the distributor.  In this scenario it is easy to get the timing dead on mechanically with the gear and chain alignment but forget the electrical phasing of the distributor, thus the 180 scenario.  

 

lap sanding is new expression to me and I hope that you are referring to the lapping of valves to the seat using a Ouija stick and lapping compound.  to have done this you have had the head off....while inside the engine in said manner did  you measure the cylinder for bore and associated bore taper....while not being able to get a 100% taper the test would still reflect if there  is a taper or possible ridge at the upper cylinder in the event a re-ring was done without re-bore/oversize slugs.  Minimum here is ok if taper is within range and the ridge cut so not to crack a top ring or break a piston ring.  Short overhauls were popular and often done but again, proper procedure must be followed.   The very problem if all the above was done proper and your valves are properly lashed....you still facing the low compression of either worn/stuck rings, bad piston lands or as stated just so dry from sitting and being washed with fuel it will not build compression...and while on this subject, you could also be looking at splash fouled spark plugs that will not fire properly under compression even though they appear to show spark when removed.   

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30 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

as the engine is four stroke many novice mechanics forget that the cam turns once to two crank revs and is the very device (cam) that drives the distributor.  In this scenario it is easy to get the timing dead on mechanically with the gear and chain alignment but forget the electrical phasing of the distributor, thus the 180 scenario.  

 

lap sanding is new expression to me and I hope that you are referring to the lapping of valves to the seat using a Ouija stick and lapping compound.  to have done this you have had the head off....while inside the engine in said manner did  you measure the cylinder for bore and associated bore taper....while not being able to get a 100% taper the test would still reflect if there  is a taper or possible ridge at the upper cylinder in the event a re-ring was done without re-bore/oversize slugs.  Minimum here is ok if taper is within range and the ridge cut so not to crack a top ring or break a piston ring.  Short overhauls were popular and often done but again, proper procedure must be followed.   The very problem if all the above was done proper and your valves are properly lashed....you still facing the low compression of either worn/stuck rings, bad piston lands or as stated just so dry from sitting and being washed with fuel it will not build compression...and while on this subject, you could also be looking at splash fouled spark plugs that will not fire properly under compression even though they appear to show spark when removed.   

I did not measure the bore or taper,  while the head was off. There was a small ridge at the top of the cylinders, but my friend who knows way more about cars and engines than I do said it wasn’t bad at all. You could barely hook it with your finger nail. Also I just now poured some oil in the cylinders and the compression went way up to 180 then 150 then to around 120 for cylinders 1-2-5-6 3-4 went up to 120 then steadily down from there. I turned to distributor cap around to 180 degrees from where it was set too and a 5 inch flame shot out of the carb. Then engine smoked a lot more this time but most of all the smoke came from the oil and crank breathers than the exhaust.

Edited by TylerB46
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IF..you stated it was firing previously at TDC compression #1...why did you change it...?   Seems that the upping of the compression with the wetting of the cylinder has proved the dry/bypassing of compression and you are now at a point to support proper combustion.  I would at this time advise you to again, verify your spark at TC #1 compression and install fresh plugs due to the possibility that they are splash fouled.  

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23 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

IF..you stated it was firing previously at TDC compression #1...why did you change it...?   Seems that the upping of the compression with the wetting of the cylinder has proved the dry/bypassing of compression and you are now at a point to support proper combustion.  I would at this time advise you to again, verify your spark at TC #1 compression and install fresh plugs due to the possibility that they are splash fouled.  

I did it caus I just wanted to check again and make sure. Could the plugs be splash fouled if they’re brand new? I really appreciate your alls help by the way.

Edited by TylerB46
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14 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

yes..splash fouling can happen fairly quickly in a scenario as you describe above trying to start with low to no compression...at the worse case scenario..you have a second set of plugs on hand...

I don’t have a second set on hand and unfortunately I have to leave to go work for 12 days tomorrow so I’ll try it when I get back.

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2 minutes ago, Don Coatney said:

You should get a spark plug sand blaster.

 

 

plug2.jpg

That’s the first time I’ve ever seen one of those, that’s really cool. Usually I just take some sand paper to them, but I’d say that would be a lot better.

Edited by TylerB46
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" ... I turned to distributor cap around to 180 degrees from where it was ... "   These distributor caps fit on only one way . If you want to turn your distributor 180 degrees you must pull the distributor from the block and turn the shaft  , and then put it back in the block . 

Edited 1 hour ago by TylerB46

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Looks like you have a head gasket failure between cylinders 4 and five.  Try the procedure again with a squirt of oil down the spark plug holes if 4 /5 don't change head gasket is confirmed. With this type of failure the engine is only running on four cylinders, so a 30% power lose at least.

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34 minutes ago, greg g said:

Looks like you have a head gasket failure between cylinders 4 and five.  Try the procedure again with a squirt of oil down the spark plug holes if 4 /5 don't change head gasket is confirmed. With this type of failure the engine is only running on four cylinders, so a 30% power lose at least.

I tried using some oil yesterday, and 3-4 did go up quite a bit, but not as high as the rest, though yesterday I was also doing the test with all the plugs in except for the one I was testing. Also the head gasket is brand new, though there could be a chance somethings not right with it. I’ll do like you said and try again. My uncle who used to own the truck came and tried to help me start it, but all we could get it to do is backfire.

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