Jump to content

My First Car -- P15 1947 Plymouth Deluxe


NickPickToo
Go to solution Solved by kbuhagiar,

Recommended Posts

On 9/20/2019 at 5:40 AM, Plymouthy Adams said:

staggered wheels do fill the bill a lot better on a custom than on a stocker....cost is usually a bit greater going stagger.  Larger meatier tires also come in with trade off on ride and handling above and beyond just the look you will get when mounted.   Beside looks you have the issue of not being able to properly rotate the tires and the spare tire issue comes into play also.....for proper handling, added caster for radials, you adding a lot of drag to the handling/steering at lower speeds...if you want to build biceps...then forget all the aforementioned...

Thank you PA.  We looked up the Caster adjustment direction in the service manual. Any advice on how much Camber and Caster to target for the wider radials (most likely 215/70R16)?                                                                                                                          

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would shoot for 2 - 3 degrees positive caster...any greater than that and you add a lot of weight aft of the kingpin and will be felt on the suspension as drag...beside I do not see you at 100MPH+....without power steering it is usually noticeable....however the trade off for tracking straight at speed is worth the small added effort to steer the beast....many forget than any tire not rolling when turning the steering wheel is increased due to the friction of the tire patch....some report some to no additional feel...some are stronger than others.....HRRRMPH....some say you don't need it at all but how many of them have actually done any alignments either?    Camber, should be able to follow the book on that....

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cant believe that we are down to just one more item to complete the front end suspension rebuild.  This is the sway eliminator bar from my '47.  I need to straiten out the driver's side bracket but I also need to find a source for the rubber bushings and cushions which are now very hard, brittle and crumbling.  If I can't find the cushions I was wondering if some industrial rubber hosing would work just as well?  

 

IMG_0122.jpg

Edited by NickPickToo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Somebody will probably suggest a source but if you need to adapt generic material you might start with McMaster Carr:

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/rubber

 

Follow that link to Bumpers and Grommets.

 

Another source:

 

http://www.midatlanticrubber.com/industrial-products/rubber-bushings

Edited by Sam Buchanan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bernbaums list part # R261 Sway Eliminator Bushing for 1946-54 Mopars......which is what the bar goes thru, where the bracket is.........here in Oz the local spare part flunkies have various urethane bushes in pretty blue,red or sometimes black and these whilst much firmer than the original rubber can sometimes be used in place of the original rubber........here you give them the ID, OD or outer measurements and they can usually match it......of course the answer to "what car is it from" will make their beady eyes glaze over but thats just part of the game........lol..........andyd    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/20/2019 at 5:31 AM, Andydodge said:

Nick......on my 41 Plymouth I ran 15/6 and 15/7 Wheel Vintiques Chrome Smoothies and 195/235/65 x15 front & back Coker Classic radials ...

IMG_1364.JPG

 

AD, that's a nice look.  Just enough difference to notice but not so much to through off the total look.  Could you tell us the total diameter of the front and the the back wheels (top of wheel to ground) and then the width of the front and back whitewalls?   We would like to get a feel for the differences between the front and back to get that look.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nick....wish I could but I sold the car a couple of years ago like a dope..........lol........the tyres were as mentioned the Coker Classic Radials in 195/65 x15 and 235/65x15 sizes, I'm pretty sure that those diamensions you want are available from Coker......the car was lowered 1 coil cut at the front and 2" blocks on the rear springs, the tyres filled the wheel wells just right and the chrome wheels made the whole thing pop.........andyd

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is the jury still out on front shock relocation?  I read a post from 2012 that indicated experience is mixed.  Thinking if we are going to do it should do it now, but if its a mixed opinion I can see moving on to the drive train.  Also, I decided to stay with same 4 wheels all the way around (215/70R16).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One well lubed and working steering gear!  Going to leave it on the bench overnight to see where and how much it's leaking.  Bottom seal looks like its staying dry but see some oil around the gaskets.  Turns smoothly left and right with the exception of when its close to center its a little tighter.  I get about 11 to 12 twists of my wrist either way so 6 twists of the wrist is about center.   Also there is just a little bit of play that we will adjust out tomorrow after we finish the leak test.

IMG_0159.jpg

Edited by NickPickToo
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

gear box is hangin' high and dry ?   Not happy about the tie rod end we received from AB.  The nuts are too small, boots to easy to split and zerks don't take grease well.  I'm using a washer before the nut and we have extra boots, but still not happy.  This picture shows the front shocks in stock position.  Now I'm really curious so we're keeping it stock for a while and then I'll be able to tell the difference when we do the relocation.  Dad is still geeking out about that shaft.  He says I may lose the three on the tree to allow for a collapsible conversion.  Not cool Dad, not cool, the whole think will end up coming loose from the gear box while I'm driving home from school one day.

IMG_0160.jpg

IMG_0161.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your Dad is of a certain age he is flashing back to the horribly gruesome photos we were shown in high school of drivers literally being impaled by the steering column......he probably isn't that old but I bet he heard about that from your Granddad......

 

Try for a compromise.....keep the stock column but install a high-quality 3-point safety harness.  :)

 

Your car is looking great!

Edited by Sam Buchanan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hear you both.  To be honest I didn't even think about it until my next door neighbor (retired engineer with several automotive related patents to his name.  He's a wonderful nutty professor type) brought it up.  Then once you get the wheel and column tube off and your looking down that shaft...if he were just going to be driving it to shows and in parades...also, three points are a given not a compromise, they were purchased week one and sitting in his closet.

 

Break related question:  Nicholas's system has a proportioning valve and most set-ups we've seen hang that valve just under the master cylinder.  It results in a very clean and simple look once the lines are in place .  In Nicholas's application that placement would be dipping down just a little below the frame line putting it at risk if he accidentally bottoms out over a bump or dip.  Has anyone else seen an alternative placement or should we be worried about hanging an inch or two below the frame line here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, NickPick'sCrew said:

I hear you both.  To be honest I didn't even think about it until my next door neighbor (retired engineer with several automotive related patents to his name.  He's a wonderful nutty professor type) brought it up.  Then once you get the wheel and column tube off and your looking down that shaft...if he were just going to be driving it to shows and in parades...also, three points are a given not a compromise, they were purchased week one and sitting in his closet.

 

I had a friend back when I was in HS (graduated in 74, to give an idea of the era I'm talking about) who lost her father in an accident where he was killed when the steering wheel broke off in the collision.  I didn't meet her until after her mother had been remarried for at least 10 years, but that was the first time I'd ever seen a car with shoulder belts in the rear seats.  It was a modification.  I don't think that even new vehicles of that era had rear shoulder belts.  I didn't think at all about shoulder belts back in 80-81 when I first got my P15, either.  My driver at that time was a 72 Dodge Coronet, and it had the additional belt for the shoulder belt that snapped into the lap belt, and when I replaced the headliner in that car (a previous owner had apparently been a very heavy smoker, and the headliner above the driver seat was 'toast'), I never did reinstall the shoulder belt.  But now, with knowledge of collapsing steering columns, I've looked at it a fair bit.  One problem with any attempt to do that on these older cars is that the column tube to dash mounting is not very far from the steering wheel itself, so there's very little room for any collapsing.  I think Nick may have already mentioned the other factor - that the column shifter shaft would also need to be made to be able to move out of the way as well.  I have always liked to sit up closer to the steering wheel than most guys (who tend to almost lay down with the drivers seat reclined way back), and so I think about the fact that I'm putting myself in more danger from the steering shaft.  So now a good should belt installation is high on my list.  (When I started working on it, I intended to use this P15 as a daily driver.  My car has sat unfinished for well over 35 years - living out of the States for 18 years, plus 'life just happens', but I still intend to drive it a lot, not just in parades, to car shows, and to church services during the summer.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, NickPickToo said:

gear box is hangin' high and dry ?   Not happy about the tie rod end we received from AB.  The nuts are too small, boots to easy to split and zerks don't take grease well.  I'm using a washer before the nut and we have extra boots, but still not happy.  This picture shows the front shocks in stock position.  Now I'm really curious so we're keeping it stock for a while and then I'll be able to tell the difference when we do the relocation.  Dad is still geeking out about that shaft.  He says I may lose the three on the tree to allow for a collapsible conversion.  Not cool Dad, not cool, the whole think will end up coming loose from the gear box while I'm driving home from school one day.

IMG_0160.jpg

IMG_0161.jpg

Did you replace the bushings that fit between the steering arm and the inner tie rod ends?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, YukonJack said:

Did you replace the bushings that fit between the steering arm and the inner tie rod ends?  

No bushings called for at those joints.  The threaded portion of the tie rod and the nut are smaller on the replacement ends than on the stock ends but the tapered section seems to fit well.  However, this keeps the nuts from getting a good seat on the control arms.  Nicholas added a washer to compensate, but I think the compression on the dust cover is tighter than designed for, and it caused one to split.  Assume more will in operation.  Kanter's ends (we have a pair) are the same diameter at the thread and nut as stock and the dust cover looks more sturdy, so I'll have him switch it out to see if it makes a difference.  Nothing against AB, we've gotten a lot of great parts from them at a reasonable price, just not to excited about the tie rod ends.

Edited by NickPick'sCrew
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Merle Coggins said:

An inch or so below the frame will likely be OK. Don't the engine oil pan, steering linkage, and exhaust pipe sit lower than that?

Thanks,  You can see by the other conversations I just worry a lot...Probably be less concerned if it were mine, but Its my son.  I was thinking those other items are less critical to stopping the vehicle once in motion.  May have Nicholas fashion a brace and rock shield to help protect that assembly.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the brakes are sealed system...mount with some attention to keep uphill flows at a minimum for ease of bleeding...I would not suggest the differential/proportioning or combination valve and lines be below the frame but above so to receive protection and allow the frame to bottom out/drag of what not...these lines are hardy for the application but cannot withstand pulling/tearing actions...suggest just aft of your master and parallel as the clutch mechanism is forward and will probably impede adjustments if placed forward....

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, NickPick'sCrew said:

 

Break related question:  Nicholas's system has a proportioning valve and most set-ups we've seen hang that valve just under the master cylinder.  It results in a very clean and simple look once the lines are in place .  In Nicholas's application that placement would be dipping down just a little below the frame line putting it at risk if he accidentally bottoms out over a bump or dip.  Has anyone else seen an alternative placement or should we be worried about hanging an inch or two below the frame line here?

 

IMHO you have a legitimate concern. I haven't yet mounted my prop valve on my 47 for the same reason; I'm not crazy about it hanging below the frame.

That is one my projects this winter, I'm going to fab a bracket and lines to place it out of harm's way.

Edited by kbuhagiar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.

Terms of Use