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My First Car -- P15 1947 Plymouth Deluxe


NickPickToo
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Just now, casper50 said:

Bench seat is safe enough if you have the 3 point belts.

exactly the seat doesn't really come into play the belts make it safe

 

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2 hours ago, NickPickToo said:

Okay real question

 

for safety, my dad says I have to switch bench to bucket in the front and get three-point, shoulder belts in front and back.  I like the bench in the front and don't think the bucket seat is necessary if we put in the three point belts.  Help!

 

If you all agree with my dad then what's would be a good look to keep somewhat the same period feel

If your dad was right about bucket seats being safer,there would be bucket seats in the rear of cars instead of bench seats because there would be government mandates.

 

Bucket seats were safer for race cars because they used chest harnesses originally used in 40's and 50's fighter aircraft,and bucket seats allowed them to be bolted or wrapped around roll bars in race cars.

 

Bolt your seatbelt straps to the floor behind you after reinforcing it with big washers or straps of metal bolted to the floor and you will be fine. After all,the seat belt straps fit between the seat bottom and the seat back anyhow.

Edited by knuckleharley
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Those two manuals have a lot the same info about the P15.   


What is anyone else's opinion?

 

The rectangular tag on the fire wall is a body number.  

There is a rectangular tag on the left front doorpost that is a serial number.

The number on the engine block starting with P15 (or other P number) is what they originally used as

the serial number (similar to todays vin) on the title.   That number can also be found stamped into the

outer side of the frame just a little in front of the left rear wheel.  May need a wire brush to clean off rust

and crud to see it.  If the engine number and frame number do not match, then the motor has been replaced

at some time. 

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16 hours ago, NickPickToo said:

Okay real question

 

for safety, my dad says I have to switch bench to bucket in the front and get three-point, shoulder belts in front and back.  I like the bench in the front and don't think the bucket seat is necessary if we put in the three point belts.  Help!

 

If you all agree with my dad then what's would be a good look to keep somewhat the same period feel

 

First off , I understand your fathers concern on safety as I am a father and grandfather. He is correct about the three point harness being safer but it will not matter what type of seat as the harness is not attached to the seat.

 

IMHO. As for the same period feel it will be hard to accomplish with the shoulder belt. But if you anchor it with hardware that looks like it came from that era and don't have any retractors installed plus use aviation style buckles you'll be about as close as you can get.

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Great to see younger guys taking up the hobby. 

 

My first car was a 48 Plymouth business coupe that I purchased in 75 at the age of 14 with yard mowing money. Drove it all through high school with the flathead and three speed. Right after graduation I spun a bearing in it. Bought my grandfathers 68 Plymouth Belvedere wagon for the 383/727 and put them in the coupe. Sold my second 48 coupe about two years ago after driving it as my daily driver for about nine years in Dallas traffic. 

 

Both cars had rebuilt stock front suspension with the second having an Olddaddy disc brake conversion. I had a professional street rod builder do a subframe swap on my first coupe when I did the big block install and other than picking up disc brakes I didn't really see that much difference in the ride or driveability. 

 

You have received a lot of good advice so far on upgrading the safety level and that should be first and foremost before you ever start driving the car. All the creature comforts and performance upgrades if any can come later. These are fairly easy cars to work on and a great way to learn. Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.  

 

One thing that I might suggest that does not fit in with the safety side of things and falls directly into the creature comforts side is to insulate it now while you have the full interior out before you start to reassemble. There are numerous options out there from Dynamat $$$$ to EZ Cool $ and everything in between. Just do some research on what is available and what you can afford. All will help with the heating/cooling of the interior and help kill rattles and squeaks. With the insides stripped bare you have access to all the surfaces that would need to be covered including inside the doors, above the headliner and behind the dash. Believe me this will be much easier to do with an empty shell than having to work around interior components. It will also make driving the car much more pleasant once you hit the road.   

Edited by hkestes41
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you will find that by construction the front bench does not lend itself to belts easily as there is not a safe position to mount to the seat itself and cutting the seat frame for access to the center hump for connection and reinforcement of the floor is also necessary.    IF you did decide to pocket the seat frame for belts, you are now faced with the ability to shift the seat forward and back without tangling and providing enough slack for the belts to move.  Also one MUST protect the belts from chaffing and fraying.  Buckets are easier installs and will allow for a much more comfortable set up for each individual allowing clean access at all seat positions.  Modern buckets however you will not have the stationary belt attached to the floor as they are often part of the seat frame.  While this is nice......study very closely the mounting of any donor seat and duplicate that in your car.....whatever you do, just ensure that you affix all belt points to the body and never to the frame.  Transferring seats for comfortable driving you will mimic the very position of any donor to that of the car as it is now with the factory seat.  Seat height from floor, most forward position of adjustment, distance from forward lower seat cushion to lower perimeter of the steering wheel....the depth of seat should be similar as with the angle of the bottom cushion is respect to the floor at the rear most height.  If you do not follow these guide lines, fatigue and long distance driving issue will arise along with respect to ease of steering.  These big steering wheels are there for a reason...and you will discover if you go to radial tires and tune the chassis for these tires correctly, even more need for the larger wheel.  It is amazing how in about 8 years you will think the old  man has sneaked off to college unnoticed by family members.

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There many ideas on this site as to installing 3 point shoulder style seat belts. About 15 different cars but will give you ideas as to how to's for an install.

 

https://www.julianos.com/Articles.asp?ID=244

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1 hour ago, DJ194950 said:

There many ideas on this site as to installing 3 point shoulder style seat belts. About 15 different cars but will give you ideas as to how to's for an install.

 

https://www.julianos.com/Articles.asp?ID=244

 

I have the three-point seat belts installed on my 47 Plymouth...personally I think it's worth the effort, and when done skillfully & tastefully will blend right in.

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I know you feeling Casper, some of mine are stock bench and will remain as such...others get a slight going over....this one I picture here I would not go back to stock for any reason....love the buckets, 3 point harness, console, 5 speed on the floor tasteful matching cloth headliner and complimenting trim.   Ambiance in ambiguous....

 

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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7 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I know you feeling Casper, some of mine are stock bench and will remain as such...others get a slight going over....this one I picture here I would not go back to stock for any reason....love the buckets, 3 point harness, console, 5 speed on the floor tasteful matching cloth headliner and complimenting trim.   Ambiance in ambiguous....

gallery_19_35_29552.jpg

Thank you -- this picture convinced my Dad that I could stay with the Bench!!!

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My 1940 Dodge has bucket seats and a console as well as retractable lap/sash seat belts in the front and lap/sash in the back and a lap belt in the centre of the back seat.........all were bought new and were installed by me using the correct hardware including bolts and reinforcing bracketry............the upper mount for the front belts was done via a piece of 1/4 thick strap with a nut welded behind it then this inserted into the pillar and lowered to the correct spot, then bolted to the pillar which was then riveted into the pillar.........the edges and corners of the 1/4 strap were rounded and chamfered and it is a tight close fit into the inner pillar before being riveted and is also held by the 7/16th UNF upper belt bolt.......the pics don't show much but a bench seat will still allow 3 point lap/sash seat belts........the back seat also has the correct child seat restraints fitted onto the rear parcel shelf more or less underneath the rear window..............andyd    

P1000816 (800x600).jpg

P1000815 (800x600).jpg

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Headlight buckets/assembly are rusted through and I understand these need to be closed to be more water tight.  There is an original pair on eBay for $725.  Just crazy unless your working on an absolutely original rebuild.  Dad asked me to see if there are any aftermarket fabricators for this or cheeper options available else he is going to to fabricate something.  Any one know of anything?  There are a lot of very similar buckets on-line for similar year but different model/makes.  How universal was this part?

Edited by NickPickToo
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e-bay is a great source for good prices but as in all sources, you must shop around and have a fair idea of the going rate for a part........find those folks breaking cars, some good size yards are not that far from you.......DO NOT OVERLOOK the value of this forum and the classifieds...it is so simple to post a parts wanted ad here....

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1 hour ago, NickPickToo said:

Headlight buckets/assembly are rusted through and I understand these need to be closed to be more water tight.  There is an original pair on eBay for $725. 

YIKES! I'll take the pair right out of my 48 coupe and sell them to you for the low,low price of 500 bucks if you need them that badly!

 

Truth to tell,I'd be surprised if you couldn't buy a good used pair for 50 to 75 bucks,plus shipping.

 

IF they are as universal amongst 40's and 50's cars as I think they might be,25 to 50 bucks plus shipping. They can't be a very  hard to find high demand item because I have never heard of anyone looking for them before this.

 

I just had heart surgery so I am not able to move a lot of stuff around or disassemble things right now,but if you haven't found a pair in 2 weeks for less than 50 bucks,shoot me a PM. I'm pretty certain I have some laying around somewhere.

Edited by knuckleharley
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Got the front grill off today.  All that black painted stainless trim seems to be in okay shape was painted blue too.  But seems like paint is hiding some good stainless.  Can’t say the same for the grill behind the crome.  It’s charred. We won’t clean it right away as job one is tear down.   Breaking a lot of bolts, screws and fasteners.

7AA61060-DF77-491E-9AEF-3022FE5B07D9.jpeg

279A855C-76A8-44E8-92A0-CB4584E81371.jpeg

Edited by NickPickToo
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Running list of parts needed / wanted 

 

Front and back bumper assemblies  (Thank you ebruns1)

Front Fender Trim Pieces both sides

Front Grill (not the stainless pieces, the grill behind the stainless)

Front headlight Buckets pair. w/ or w/o  assembly

Brake conversion kit and related parts

front suspension needs still to be determined

Rear suspension needs still to be determined

New Tires

Headliner

seatbelts three point aircraft style

rewireing needs still to be determined

floor pannel needs (and other pannels) still to be determined

 

Will update as teardown proceeds.

Edited by NickPickToo
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