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Exploring my Meadowbrook


51_Meadowbrook

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So as I continue my Summer of Exploration on my ’51 Meadowbrook I’m discovering just how much maintenance is lost during long term storage. When I got the car 4 years ago it hadn’t run since 1973. The brakes were gone, the carburetor was tired. The speedometer didn’t work. All the normal stuff you would expect. Since it was my first classic car I learned a lot along the way, including how to replace valves and pumps. This summer I took on my transmission and fluid drive fluids. Before the summer is over I’m taking on the differential gasket and pinion seal. The car has forever fought me on overheating so this year I decided to take the advise of some forum members and put wood bleach in it. The thread is somewhere on here. It seemed to clean it out great, for about 2 months. I had a leaking freeze plug that decided to fly out in the yard when I was working on the radiator hose that kept collapsing. So I replaced that with a rubber one and it stopped the leaks on that side of the engine. I read up on Evaporust Thermocure. I put it in earlier this week and drove it around. The fluid turned black, which is the indication that it has reached its life in terms of cleaning the rust out. So I drained it and put more in. Drove it an hour and a half and it’s black again. At $30 a fluid change I’m not happy about constantly replacing it but im thrilled about it cleaning it out so much. Except, with every cleaning you find an issue. Another freeze plug has started leaking. I expected this because it has a lot of rust in it, but why can’t it be an easy to access one? The engine has never run so cool for as long as I have owned it. The needle sits just over the Winter Warm line on the gauge and only raises up a little after a couple miles when on the highway going 65 then goes right back down when I slow down. 

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Edited by 51_Meadowbrook
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With that much issue with the freeze plugs and the collapsing of the hose, suction from the pump indicates a slow flow radiator starving the pump on return means you getting no real heat exchange and that the water in the block is being over saturated with heat.  It appears you should pull all the plugs, clean the inner jackets from sediments, entertain a modern aluminum radiator for over all cost effectiveness and flow/heat transfer.  This issue also would point toward the need to remove and clean the distribution tube at the upper end of the block behind the water pump.  Do also clean your heater coil in the process....removing the thermostat prior to flushing is recommended.  Use a thermostat for your climate.  With the salts used in flushing, I would expect to see more an more pinholes showing up as you band-aide this and that.  I would at minimum after the use of the slats run a couple cycles of clear water and Cascade dish washing powders to further clean the interior of the block and rad.

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If you don't want to replace your radiator with an aluminum one,you should consider pulling your radiator and taking it to a radiator shop to have it rodded out. Or having a new core installed if you hate the look of an aluminum radiator.

 

Or maybe just drive the car to a radiator shop and having them reverse flush the radiator,install a new water distribution tube, freeze plugs,thermostat,and new hoses.

 

Yeah,this is going to cost some money,but on the other hand your frustration level will decrease,and so will the expense of having it towed if it runs hot away from home.

 

Not to mention decrease in the possibility of it running hot and cracking the block and/or cracking/warping the head.

 

Lots of old cars and trucks are loaded with rust inside because it seems a lot of 2nd or 3rd owners were cheap and didn't like buying anti-freeze for a "back up car" they rarely drove,so they would just drain the radiator and block after every use,and add fresh water when they needed to drive the car. A hot engine that is drained and opened to cold air equals rust.

 

If you haven't had to replace the water pump yet,I have bad news for you.

 

Sometimes there just ain't any shortcuts.  You just have to spend the money and be done with it.

 

BTW,really nice driver car.  Are your plans to preserve it or restore it?  If it were mine,I think I would go for cosmetic preservation  and then just drive and enjoy it.

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I drive this car about 4-5 times a week. I like stock cars. I find them to be classy. I don’t know how far I plan to take it but I want to paint it and reupholster it and make it like it was when it was a young pup. People say that the younger generations don’t like these cars but teenagers and younger adults stop and look at it drive by and give thumbs up. Little by little I’m fixing things as I learn how to. I have replaced the water pump. Everyone is stuck on the radiator but that is not the heat issue I think I have. There are pounds of rust in the engine block. I have to get that out. The radiator temp cools about 20 degrees from top to bottom. A big issue of mine is the block was dry for decades and I have just flushed it from time to time. Now I’m trying to get that rust out and it’s showing the standard wear points, like plugs. Btw, I’m sorry about the highlighted words. I don’t know why it is creating links but I’m not a fan of it automatically doing that. 

Edited by 51_Meadowbrook
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1 hour ago, Don Coatney said:

 

 

How do you rod out a honeycomb radiator?

 

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I don't know. Never thought about it,and I don't repair radiators.

I am guessing the only solution with these things are to take them to a radiator shop and have the tanks attached to a modern core.  IF you could find a new one it would probably be too expensive to justify use on a driver.

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   I once had a Cadillac Seville that literally ate its radiator. The problem was electrolysis between the cast-iron engine block, the aluminum radiator, and the anti-freeze coolant. The coolant had to be replaced every 2 years, or the aluminum radiator, being the softer of the two metals, corroded quickly. As a side-bar, it also ate both head gaskets due to the same situation. Cast-iron, and brass and copper, co-exist on a much friendlier manner. On that car, the dealership installed a sacrificial anode that, along with coolant maintenance (even tho’ I had the coolant changed every 5 years rather than every 2 years . . .), eliminated the problem. As such, I’m no fan of aluminum radiators. In our current Cadillac, the dissimilar metals issue isn’t an issue anymore (except for the head gaskets), since the engine is entirely aluminum, as is the radiator.

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2 hours ago, DrDoctor said:

   I once had a Cadillac Seville that literally ate its radiator. The problem was electrolysis between the cast-iron engine block, the aluminum radiator, and the anti-freeze coolant. The coolant had to be replaced every 2 years, or the aluminum radiator, being the softer of the two metals, corroded quickly. As a side-bar, it also ate both head gaskets due to the same situation. Cast-iron, and brass and copper, co-exist on a much friendlier manner. On that car, the dealership installed a sacrificial anode that, along with coolant maintenance (even tho’ I had the coolant changed every 5 years rather than every 2 years . . .), eliminated the problem. As such, I’m no fan of aluminum radiators. In our current Cadillac, the dissimilar metals issue isn’t an issue anymore (except for the head gaskets), since the engine is entirely aluminum, as is the radiator.

It sounds as if the problem was a poor ground from the engine back to the battery and the current was flowing through the coolant. There are plenty of dissimilar metals in vehicles that get along fine especially with the new coolants and proper wiring.

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Just Remove the Radiator. Turn it upside down in the yard. Put a Water Hose in the bottom and wash it out.

You will get a cup of crud out of the top where you usually fill it. It will all come out be patient,

and it will probably be fine. Buying and spending doesn't have to be the first solution

Edited by Tom Skinner
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  • 2 weeks later...

And now the humid days are here and for the first time since I bought the car I’m experiencing vapor lock. It’s happened twice this week so I slit the old heater hose and slid it over the fuel line going from the pump to the carburetor. The hose was awful hot when I got home from my 10 minute drive so I’m thinking that should help, assuming the hose will withstand the heat and not break down 

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I just replaced my original radiator as the local radiator shop said he could not fix mine..........got a Champion aluminum

for about $235.........masked off the core.......and painted the top, sides and bottom gloss black.   I also had the upper

tank neck reconfigured from a 90 degree angle, to one of approx 45 degrees.  That was done at a local welding shop 

by making a pie cut in the top of the neck, removing some metal, pulling the neck up to a lesser angle, and re welding

it back together.    Probably a simpler way is to order the radiator with a straight upper neck.  Had to get a new top

hose (due to angle of that top neck and the fact the new rad is a little thinner than the old original) ... longer by about

one inch, but the old bottom hose was usable.  Haven't driven the car yet to see what it does in the temperature 

department. The radiator was a good fit.......but you need to replace the factory cap with a four pound cap, available

from NAPA stores (they will probably have to order one in),

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10 minutes ago, BobT-47P15 said:

...The radiator was a good fit.......but you need to replace the factory cap with a four pound cap, available

from NAPA stores (they will probably have to order one in),

Why would you need a 4 PSI cap with a modern radiator? AFAIK,the 4psi cap was used on the original ones to keep them from building up so much pressure the seams would split. On the other hand,the new radiators are made to handle the higher pressures.

 

Look at the literature you got with your new radiator for cap pressure recommendations. If you can't find any,contact Champion.

 

Chances are excellent your old Mopar will cool just fine with a 4psi cap,but if it ever starts to run hot in traffic,be aware you can put a higher pressure cap on it to help cooling.

 

BTW,I have a Champion aluminum radiator in  my 51 Ford with a flat  V-8 and original Fordomatic,and IIRC,I am running a 16 lb pressure cap on it.

Edited by knuckleharley
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This topic got awful radiator based. In my case there is nothing wrong with my radiator. The thermocure has worked beautifully. I ran it for a couple of days with just water to flush it a little and have put another bottle in just to see if it will clean up even more. Based on the descriptions of the temperature gauge in the book it hasn’t gone up to Summer Warm. It is staying a little above Winter Warm, which according to the thermo gun is about 170 degrees. 

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I dont know where your from but it WILL sneak up on you in 100 plus temps or heat index.

 

Rodding the core at a radiator shop is excellent advice.  They boil the whole thing in a tank of stuff that smells awful for days on end.  They unsolder the top and bottom tanks OFF the core. And take a metal brush and push it thru like a bottle brush.  THEN he solders the tanks back on .  BIGGEST and most important is pressure testing it and fixing minor leaks.  If the tank or core is rotted out from the inside and cant be fixed,,,leads to more discussions and pricing of options.  Hard to find the good old shops but there has to be a few.  The tubes they rod are those running up and down inside that honey comb fins.  Dont look at the fins but what is inside them.

 

On vapor lock they sell a nice asbestoes sleeve at Advanced or Autozone.  If you can find one that snaps on you dont have to take lines loose.

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  • 4 weeks later...

It was a wonderful Meadowbrook day. Took it off to the bank after replacing the fuel line from the fuel pump to the carburetor. The one I had put on was too short so I had it too close to the  exhaust. That definitely helped cool the fuel in the bowl. It was pretty hot and humid so the gauge did get up to what I would guess was around 170 but never reached the Summer Warm line. Now I need to work on getting my idle speed screw to stop loosening on me and I’ll be in good shape. 

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11 hours ago, 51_Meadowbrook said:

It was a wonderful Meadowbrook day. Took it off to the bank after replacing the fuel line from the fuel pump to the carburetor. The one I had put on was too short so I had it too close to the  exhaust. That definitely helped cool the fuel in the bowl. It was pretty hot and humid so the gauge did get up to what I would guess was around 170 but never reached the Summer Warm line. Now I need to work on getting my idle speed screw to stop loosening on me and I’ll be in good shape. 

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I have never understood how anyone could NOT drive a old car that was capable of being driven while gathering the parts and money to redo it cosmetically.  I have a other brand 51 business coupe that I drive all over the place,and it actually looks worse now than when I bought it because it is 3 or 4 different colors now,from where I sanded surface rust to the bare metal and then used primer and rattle can paint to keep it from rusting again until I take it apart for bodywork and paint.

 

I know I will like looking at and sitting inside the car once it is finished,but it won't be any more fun to drive than it is right now. Maybe even not as much because now I don't have to worry about flying gravel or parking lot dings.

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  • 3 weeks later...

So now that the weather is getting cooler I think it’s time to fix the smoking issue the car has. The engine has 48k. It uses about a quart every 50-100 miles, depending upon if I go about 40mph. I can use a quart if I go 55-65 for about 10 minutes. At those speeds I get a faint smoke out of the tail pipe. During deceleration I get it too. I was going to replace the seals but i can’t find any and don’t see them in the book. Does this engine not have seals? I have been told it’s the oil ring on the pistons. I have been told it’s the valve guides. Is there a way to definitively know prior to taking off the head? My dry compression test was around 90 across the board. I didn’t do a wet compression test, mainly because I’m new to a lot of this and didn’t know I was supposed to do it. 

Edited by 51_Meadowbrook
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I’d start by doing a compression test. Check each cylinder, and record the results. Then go back and repeat and add a teaspoon of oil in each cylinder and record results. All should be about the same in a healthy motor. A sick motor will show variance in psi for more than 20-30 + psi. Healthy motor should have compression of around 100 psi. If the pressure increases with the oil - the piston rings are worn out = bore block and new oversize pistons. If the oil changes nothing then the valves are worn and need a valve job. Assuming the motor is high mileage I’d imagine both need to be done, a complete overhaul. 

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My Meadowbrook engine was burning as much oil as you say yours does.  When we took the engine apart 5 of the 6 top rings fell apart in many pieces. Having the engine rebuilt was a blessing.  Hope you find the answer.

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