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HELP !! NO POWER TO THE NEW FUSE PANEL


Labrauer

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I purchased a wiring harness from Kwik wiring and put it in my 48 Plymouth but now I can't get any power to anything on the car. My car is 6 volt positive ground and I have also added a single wire 6 volt alternator with a built in regulator. I called the alternator guys and they told me how to wire it up by passing the old regulator on the car. The # 15 red 10 Ga. wire runs from the fuse panel to the alternator battery lug on the alternator. The #16 10Ga. wire runs from the fuse panel to the starter battery lug on my starter solenoid with a Maxi fuse installed on this wire. My battery cables from the battery are hooked up with the positive to the engine block and negative to the other side of the solenoid opposite of the starter lug. There is a third lug on the solenoid in the center that nothing is hooked up to and I don't know if anything goes there or not. I've got 6.4 amps in the battery so I know it's good. I have no power to the ignition switch nor to any of the fuses on the fuse box with the key on and flipping the switch on the fuse box that kills the power to the coil. Can anyone think of a reason I am not getting power? I have also e-mailed kwik wiring for some answer. If no response tomorrow I will call them on the phone.
 
Sincerely,
Larry Brauer
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33 minutes ago, Labrauer said:
I purchased a wiring harness from Kwik wiring and put it in my 48 Plymouth but now I can't get any power to anything on the car. My car is 6 volt positive ground and I have also added a single wire 6 volt alternator with a built in regulator. I called the alternator guys and they told me how to wire it up by passing the old regulator on the car. The # 15 red 10 Ga. wire runs from the fuse panel to the alternator battery lug on the alternator. The #16 10Ga. wire runs from the fuse panel to the starter battery lug on my starter solenoid with a Maxi fuse installed on this wire. My battery cables from the battery are hooked up with the positive to the engine block and negative to the other side of the solenoid opposite of the starter lug. There is a third lug on the solenoid in the center that nothing is hooked up to and I don't know if anything goes there or not. I've got 6.4 amps in the battery so I know it's good. I have no power to the ignition switch nor to any of the fuses on the fuse box with the key on and flipping the switch on the fuse box that kills the power to the coil. Can anyone think of a reason I am not getting power? I have also e-mailed kwik wiring for some answer. If no response tomorrow I will call them on the phone.
 
Sincerely,
Larry Brauer

 

There's your problem, I think. Check the Kwik Wiring instructions again carefully. I think you will find the #16 red 10 Ga wire goes from the solenoid to the fuse panel to supply power, and the battery negative should go to the same solenoid terminal.

 

Bear in mind that these kits are for 12V negative ground (at least I can't find any mention of a 6V positive ground kit on their website) so you need to bear that in mind, and secondly the wires will all be too thin for a 6V system (halving the voltage doubles the current requirement).

 

 

wiring.jpg

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I think your problem is going to be at the starter solenoid.  Your # 16 wire has to be hot at all times to feed your fuse panel, usually means hooked to the same terminal as the battery cable.  Now how your solenoid terminal lugs are setup and their uses can vary by application. Post a pic of the solenoid and starter.  I know there has been a few posts in the past on what the terminals are for, depending on the solenoid style.

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   The wiring harness from Ron Francis Wire Works—“Get it Runnin’”—is designed to work with a 6v system. Our car has had that particular system in if for several years with NO problems of any kinds since installation. Plus, their support is First Rate!!! Thx.

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Thanks for the information guys I am willing to try anything from suggestions to get the car running again 

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If it is the stock solenoid, it should be self grounded by being bolted to the fender. The small terminal gets power from the starter terminal on the key switch, or the starter button.  If it has two terminals, the second one should go to the ign side of the coil.  This provides full battery voltage to the coil while the starter is engaged. It should drop out when the key or button is released, the coil then being fed through the ign. Side of the key switch. The solenoid ground might be enhanced by the addition of a ground strap between the fire wall and the engine/ bell housing.  This may also allow headlights and tail lights, instrument lights and all body grounded accessories to operate as designed.  Having a direct path to ground rather than through the various sheet metal attachments the may be effected by 70 years of corrosion.

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45 minutes ago, greg g said:

If it is the stock solenoid, it should be self grounded by being bolted to the fender. The small terminal gets power from the starter terminal on the key switch, or the starter button.  If it has two terminals, the second one should go to the ign side of the coil.  This provides full battery voltage to the coil while the starter is engaged. It should drop out when the key or button is released, the coil then being fed through the ign. Side of the key switch. The solenoid ground might be enhanced by the addition of a ground strap between the fire wall and the engine/ bell housing.  This may also allow headlights and tail lights, instrument lights and all body grounded accessories to operate as designed.  Having a direct path to ground rather than through the various sheet metal attachments the may be effected by 70 years of corrosion.

 

All good info and advice. But as per the wiring diagram, you appear to have connected the battery negative to the wrong terminal on the solenoid. Make sure it is connected to the same terminal as the 10 Ga wire to the fusebox. It should be fairly obvious which terminal on the solenoid, as one will be a big chunky one designed to handle the whole starter current, and the other one (or two) will be small 'signal' sized terminals.

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I have some pictures of the starter, and solenoid 

1528912752508986054917.jpg

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Your fuse box power should come off the front terminal sharing the stud with the primary battery cable. An alternative source might be the amp gauge terminal the feeds the ign switch. But the solenoid post is probably easier to deal with.

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I think you'll be fine if you move that 10 gauge wire on the solenoid to the big post on the other side of the solenoid.  Leave the heavy cables where they are. That little post on top of the solenoid you'll use to engage the solenoid.  It'll come from either the key switch in the start position or start button, whichever you have.

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Thanks for all the helpful replies guys I now have power to the fuse box. I have power to the fuse box and the head lights and dome light except the dome light will not turn off without disconnecting the battery cable. Those three things are working but nothing else. Tomorrow I am going to take my wiring book out and go through each and every wire to make sure it is going to the right place out of the fuse box. I thought we (my son and I ) hooked everything up by the book but apparently we did something wrong or didn't hook up wires right. 

 

I have one more question to ask you guys and that is there is a pink wire # 20 14Ga. that comes from the fuse box and says to connect to the positive lug on the coil. I don't know if this way is for a positive ground hookup or a negative ground hook up out of the book. I have a hard time reading and understanding these instructions and diagrams. Anybody know? 

 

Thanks again.

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Anyone got a wiring diagram for a '48 Plymouth? The latest one I have is for a '42 P-14; having studied this and earlier ones, I can't figure out how the starter works at all. I can see a switch for the ignition side, but nothing to energise the starter solenoid...

Edited by Wiggo
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13 hours ago, Wiggo said:

Anyone got a wiring diagram for a '48 Plymouth? The latest one I have is for a '42 P-14; having studied this and earlier ones, I can't figure out how the starter works at all. I can see a switch for the ignition side, but nothing to energise the starter solenoid...

 

Wiggo Look in the download files there are wiring diagrams for the 48 Plymouth and others.

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According to the diagram Wiggo posted,  they have it set up as a negative ground schematic.  Your description in your first post describes your system as a positive ground.  Therefore, hook that wire to the negative side of the coil.  The positive side will be connected to the lead that goes to the distributor.

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3 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

According to the diagram Wiggo posted,  they have it set up as a negative ground schematic.  Your description in your first post describes your system as a positive ground.  Therefore, hook that wire to the negative side of the coil.  The positive side will be connected to the lead that goes to the distributor.

 

Thanks Dave72dt /That is what I thought but was not sure.

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OK, Larry, I took a look at the wiring diagram in the download section (I assume 1948 is the P-17/18, right?) and it's amazing how much more complicated the electrics got from my 1941 D-20.

 

Anyway, here's the thing. The Kwik Wire kit is indistinguishable from the kit I recently installed on my car, so I can speak from experience here. Fitting these kits is relatively straightforward, but you need to know your way around a car's electrical system. It is time consuming and requires you to be very methodical, and you will spend a lot of time deciphering old wiring diagrams to adapt what you have to the kit. Trying to do that at the same time as mentally flipping a negative ground kit to a positive ground application will be even more interesting.

 

So, how much have you done so far? Was this a case of ripping out all traces of the old wiring harness and starting again, or are you doing it in stages? When you say the headlamps work, do they work correctly from the switch, and do the instrument lights come on as well? What about things like the heater motor?

 

As for why the other circuits are not working, my best guess is that your ignition switch is wired up wrongly. The kit is assuming a modern ignition switch with (typically) 5 connections, but yours looks to be a 4 connector one. More confusingly, yours has a terminal labelled ACC, which really isn't the ACC referred to in the wiring kit. What I think you should have is the following:

  • #31 Coil (Pink) to the ACC terminal on the switch (was a BLACK 16 Ga wire to the coil negative)
  • #19 Neutral Safety (Purple) to the B terminal of the switch (was a BLACK/YELLOW 16 Ga wire going to small terminal on starter solenoid)
  • #33 ACC (Orange) and #32 ACC (Brown, if fitted) to the starter switch terminal that had Blue, Red and Black wires going to it (to fuel gauge, radio and handbrake)
  • #34 Ign Power (Red) to the remaining ignition switch terminal (was BROWN 12 Ga to a 30A circuit breaker)

That should get the car to turn over and start (and hopefully get most everything else playing nicely, too). The dome light is an exercise for another day. 

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Well Wiggo'

 

I am starting with no old wires in the car as usual I messed up when I decided to redo the wires and let some young folks rip the wires out. I regret doing that now but that was then and this is now me feeling the pain and frustration of the new wiring harness. 

Here's what I have done so far on the car in which it is 1948 P-15 by the way. I have purchased a new Ignition Switch #70702B with 4 connections, new Headlight switch #70701, New turn signal switch #6020, and a new starter button. All have been installed on the car. ?The signal switch was wire up according to the kwik wire book instructions. The ignition switch also was wired by the book, the headlight was wired by the book but still there is nothing working except for the headlights but no instrument lights, dome light, dimmer switch and indicator high beam light, electric fuel pump that runs off a toggle switch. The fuel gauge and fuel sending unit seems to be working. I have not hooked up the starter button yet. When I hook up the battery and look at the signal switch the red center glass glows a faint light but when I flip the handle down or up the light goes out and nothing blinks at all. The horns are not working but when I push the horn ring I hear a click sound in the fuse box at the built in horn relay, 

 

I will try what you have down for me to change and see if it helps. I have my fingers crossed that it does. 

 

Thanks for the reply and help

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OK, for a start, connect the ignition switch as follows:

  • #31 Coil (Pink) to the IGN terminal on the switch
  • #19 Neutral Safety (Purple) to the ST terminal of the switch (this means ditching the existing start button, bear in mind - I re-used mine as a trunk release switch)
  • #33 ACC (Orange) and #32 ACC (Brown, if fitted) to the ACC terminal on the switch
  • #34 Ign Power (Red) to the BAT terminal on the switch

That will get power to the appropriate circuits on the fuseboard and should allow the engine to crank and run. However, you will be starting from the key, not the old starter button.

 

Other thoughts. The horn will not work, as it is a 12V relay in the Kwik Wire kit, and the 6V signal will probably not be enough to pull in the contacts. That's why you hear a faint click, but no horn. The same is true with the indicators: the faint glow is a 12V bulb being given only 6V, and when you try to turn on the indicators, 6V is not sufficient to operate the 12V flasher relay.

 

The dimmer and dome light can wait, for now. The instrument lights actually should have a separate switch according to the old wiring diagram, so that's almost certainly not connected for now. I'd suggest rewiring the dash so the instruments are powered from the sidelight power. I'm guessing that wire #30 (Gauge lights, Red) is a loose wire and not connected to the main fuseboard, in which case connect it to each of the instrument cluster lights, and then to either of the brown wires on your new light switch (i.e. join to #27 or #29).

 

 

UPDATE

The dimmer should use your existing stomp switch, otherwise you will need a 70705 switch: http://kwikwire.com/dimmer-switch/

You will also need to hook it up to your main beam indicator lamp, wherever that is on the P15.

Edited by Wiggo
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  • 2 weeks later...

Okay guys thanks for all the help on the fuse box power and the lights. Thanks to you all I have everything working but in my way of all this stuff of rewiring with a 12 volt harness that I didn't realize was for a 12 volt system I made a change in the power system. In looking for some 6 volt stuff in the auto parts houses (Napa, Auto Zone, Oreilly, Santa Fe auto parts, and Advanced auto parts) around here in south Texas is like finding a 20K piece of gold in your front yard. I know I can order parts from the internet but it takes time to get them and it usually involves shipping cost. So with that said I have changed to a 12 volt one wire alternator on the car. I know many won't approve and I'll probable get a lot of slack in doing so but that's the way I chose to go.  

So with that said I have a question on why the engine will not start. I have checked that #6 piston is in the top position from the plug hole on the head and have looked at the distributor to see if the rotor is facing the #6 wire to the plug. All is fine so I turned the engine by hand to the TDC on the crank pulley and checked the rotor again and it is in the 7 o'clock position which is the #1 plug. I checked for spark from the plug to the plug wire and it has spark but no cranking, checked to see if it was getting gas and it is. When trying to start it backfires through the carb which I would think tells me it's out of time but how can it be with the procedure I did? Before the engine was installed in the car I checked the valves for their clearance according to the book. Anyone have any suggestions on how stupid I am or what can be wrong. 

As always thanks for the help in advance.    

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No. 6 pistom comes up twice for every firing.  You could be getting spark when the valves are 180 degrees out of phase. 

 

One way to make sure that a piston is at the top of the compression stroke is to have a thumb over the sparkplug hole.   If cylinder No . 1,  the puff against the thumb should be when the rotor is pointing to the No. 1 plug wire, or close.    

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I went back and checked my run and I did put my finger on the #1 spark plug hole and it seems that I am out 180% on the distributor how it got that way I have no idea. Stranger things have happened. Now how do I get it back to correct?

Thanks as always

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Some people just switch the plug wires 180 degrees.  The PO did my car that way.  No. 1 is at 1:00 instead of 7:00, etc.  I re-did it right. 

You can remove the distributor, turn the shaft 180 degrees, and reinstall it. 

(If the oil pump is in right, No. 1 will be at either 7:00 or 1:00.) 

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