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39 Fuel Tank & Elec Pump


Dennis Detweiler

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It's finally Spring in Iowa. I started working on my 39 Plymouth. The top of the tank was leaking, so I dropped it today. The top was leaking around the rotted sending unit gasket. The sending unit arm is rusted (frozen), won't move. The bottom of the tank has former repair areas bulging with rust. I scraped a few of them and it started leaking. I'm leaning toward replacing the tank with a poly tank. I can get the new tank and sending unit for $275.00. Are there any forum members that would recommend taking the old tank to a shop for refurbishing or is it better to just replace it? Maybe the repair cost would be about the same as a new tank?

 

I bought an in-line electric fuel pump that I plan to install near the tank outlet. I have a new mechanical pump on the engine, but thought I'd add the electric anyway. Ok idea or not?

 

After the fuel problem is solved, I'm investing in a front disc conversion kit. I put all new (Chinese) wheel cyliners, master cylinder and shoes on all four last Fall. The front left cylinder is already leaking. Hopefully, the master cylinder will hold up for a while? The rear axle is late 40's early 50's. The rest of the car is original....so far.  Engine was rebuilt 10,000 miles ago, but one freeze plug has a slow leak and needs replaced. There is no oil filter on it, but I have one ready to install.

I appreciate any input or suggestions.

 

Thanks,

Dennis

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Dennis, my suggestion is in regards to the freeze plug, it sounds like it is a steel one, I'd strongly suggest replacing it and any others that are steel with brass plugs, thats what I use and have never had to replace a brass one in 45yrs........as for repair or replace the fuel tank, if the repair place is close by maybe get a quote from them but from the sound of it the tank has seen better days tho' at least if its repaired then in theory at least it should refit without any issues.........I've had  4 wheel discs on my 40 Dodge since about 1976, yes I'm a hotrodder but discs on the front and a compatible rear drum setup will make a huge difference, I know when I was driving the stock 41 Plymouth I had it required a completely different mindset with regard to other car awareness......and new underwear regularly.......lol............my disc setup uses Oz only parts so is unfortunately not going to be of much use to you in the US but .............anyway my 2 Oz cents worth...........lol..........regards, andyd    

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Replace the tank. There is no question about this. While you are at it,replace the fuel line with the new copper/nickel lines that you can bend with your hands and not kink it,and then never have to worry about the gas line rusting inside.

Replace all the hoses with new rubber rated to handle ethanol,and replace any gas filters with new filters rated for ethanol,too.

 

Try to find the original parts numbers for your wheel cylinders if you have already tossed them. If you still have the old ones,the parts number and manufacturer will be cast right on them. Get the numbers off of all of them along with the manufacturers (Lockheed,etc,etc,etc) name. Do a web search using the name and numbers,and you may be surprised at what pops up. I was doing a brake job on my 39 IHC PU,and IHC parts are hard to find and stupid expensive. I got prices of 90 bucks each after checking with the IHC vendors.

 

So I pulled the drums,got the numbers,and did a search on amazon. IIRC,I got them for $4.95 each,and all 4 were new Lockheed wheel cylinders. I've done the same with other cars since,with similar results.

If your master cylinder is Chinese,I would recommend taking the same approach to finding a US made brake cylinder. If you can't,but a rebuilt one that has been sleeved by someone like White Post Restorations. Do a web search for "master cylinder rebuilders". You might even find one close to home.

 

OR......,you might want to consider one of the under the floor dual outlet master cylinder kits. They cost more,but are much safer.

 

While at it,replace all the brake hoses and the brake lines with copper/nickel brake lines.

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Thanks for the input.

 

I'm heading to Yogi's classic car parts in Monticello (about 45 minutes from me) tomorrow for a tank and sending unit. I didn't know there was such a parts store this close to me until I googled it.

 

Can I burn 10% ethanol in my recently rebuilt carb without dissolving some of the innards?

 

I'll check into the master cylinder options, but definitely want to get discs on the front to help stop this sedan tank.

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18 minutes ago, Dennis Detweiler said:

Thanks for the input.

 

I'm heading to Yogi's classic car parts in Monticello (about 45 minutes from me) tomorrow for a tank and sending unit. I didn't know there was such a parts store this close to me until I googled it.

 

Can I burn 10% ethanol in my recently rebuilt carb without dissolving some of the innards?

 

I'll check into the master cylinder options, but definitely want to get discs on the front to help stop this sedan tank.

Then don't even waste your time rebuilding your old master cylinder. Donate it to someone that could use it,or sell it to a rebuilding service as a care.

 

If you go with disc brakes up front,you are going to need a dual-outlet master cylinder. I have never done this with a old Mopar,so you are going to need someone else to advise you of the various kits available.

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I know this ground has been covered thoroughly ..Let me just offer this...l still have my first car, a 34 Plymouth all original brakes, steering and drivetrain. Like he said, you can drive the car as is in today's traffic but it takes a specific mindset to do it safely...it is fun but not for very long as it is both a physical and mental challenge.

l recently purchased a 1940 Dodge, basically the same car, with the goal of making it a safe and dependable driver. So we did...steering is original but in good condition, rebuilt front suspension with manual disc brakes and dual chamber master cylinder, Ford Ranger 3:07 rear, 12 volt. Original engine and column shift 3 speed the car steers and stops just fine and cruises at 65-70 at about 2300.

With relatively simple and inexpensive changes it really transforms the driving experience to a different level...it's cool to drive and doesn't beat you to death.

Regards

Tom

ps don't fool with your used tank...new ones are available ..

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Steering and stopping is my priority right now. I want the car to be easy to drive. After I bought it last Fall, I drove it 35 miles to my home. The steering needs some work. It's a little squirrely on the highway. Steering seems tight, but it likes to wander. I'll have a reputable shop do an assessment and alignment on it.

Tomorrow, I'm heading to Yogi's for a tank and sending unit. Next is a front disc brake kit. Anything remaining after that is minor repairs or subject to tweaking.

Thanks for the input

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4 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

if...you spending money for an alignment and you intend to install radials or perhaps radials are on there now, ensure the shop set it up for the radials...it will not drive right set to stock specs...

Are there "set numbers" positive or negative from stock that apply for all makes?

Edited by knuckleharley
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Hi In regards to your dual chamber master cylinder...we made a bracket and used the stock pedal with a GM mater cylinder from an early 70's manual disc brake car..there is also an aftermarket set up available from Butch's Cool stuff...

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

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Thanks for the heads up. Yes, it has radials on it and the steering parts are all original. I'll talk to their alignment specialist with details before I take it in. I have an original copy of the shop manual with specs, but those won't apply. There are a couple of classic/antique/hot rod car clubs in the area that will likely point me to the best alignment service. I'll get the disc  brake conversion on it in advance.

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5 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

talk to your alignment specialist..

I would if I had one. All the guys I knew have died off or retired,and I see nothing now but people who have never even heard of nylon tires.

 

Since I don't know enough about it myself  to instruct them,I am trying to find the answers before spending the money to have it done wrong.

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for the record and to jog your memory, think of the converstation where I posted thatthe bias ply tires are basically in operation like the exaggerated cartoon car where the car is outrunning the rubber.  It is true, at speed the contact patch of the bias will shift rearward and effectively add positive caster in the steering and then when at stop, this caster is now back to a neutral allow for ease of steering at low or stopped condition.  When applying radials, this action does not take place so added positive caster is needed to keep the wandering in check at speed...yes some positive caster will put drag on the wheels at stop or low speed but it is a necessary trade off for operating safely on the highway at speed..  This action was all that was behind the RADIAL TUNED SUSPENSION campaign long ago..

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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16 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

for the record and to jog your memory, think of the converstation where I posted thatthe bias ply tires are basically in operation like the exaggerated cartoon car where the car is outrunning the rubber.  It is true, at speed the contact patch of the bias will shift rearward and effectively add positive caster in the steering and then when at stop, this caster is now back to a neutral allow for ease of steering at low or stopped condition.  When applying radials, this action does not take place so added positive caster is needed to keep the wandering in check at speed...yes some positive caster will put drag on the wheels at stop or low speed but it is a necessary trade off for operating safely on the highway at speed..  This action was all that was behind the RADIAL TUNED SUSPENSION campaign long ago..

OK,thanks. You didn't explain it last time.You just told me to the guys at the alignment shop  would know.

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17 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

OK,thanks. You didn't explain it last time.You just told me to the guys at the alignment shop  would know.

 I explained this to you a bit back...not just today's reply......I thought by posting it all again it would have jogged your memory.....:lol:

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Enjoyed your post, very informative, I was not aware that the alignment would have to be redone when radials are installed.  I have a 39 Plymouth business coupe, currently having front disk brakes and dual master cylinder installed, don't feel comfortable with the single reservior.  Later this summer will be adding a Mitchells overdrive, the current transmission was rebuilt and this seemed like the easiest approach.  Other than these changes, the car is all stock with 600X16 in bias ply tires, thinking of changing to  radials with a wider foot print, the current tires don't provide much traction in the rain.  Going to be tough finding an alignment shop here in N.J. with the  experienced to do an alignment without specifications.  Has anyone had any experience with size of wheels / tires for a 39 Ply. when converting to radials?  Thinking of using 15 in. wheels, either 5.5 or 6 in.  wide and for tires use P215/65R16 or P225/60R16.  Or should I be considering 15 in wheels?  

 

I am new P15 D24, will search for post on Radial  Tuned Suspension..

 

Richard

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On 4/25/2018 at 11:58 AM, knuckleharley said:

I would if I had one. All the guys I knew have died off or retired,and I see nothing now but people who have never even heard of nylon tires.

 

Since I don't know enough about it myself  to instruct them,I am trying to find the answers before spending the money to have it done wrong.

I suggest:

 

0° to -0.50° camber. 

Less camber means less tire wear. More camber means more stable in turns.

No positive camber!

 

1/8" to 0" toe in

More toe in will stabilize the steering feel but increase tire wear. Less toe in i.e. 0 can make the steering feel like it is wandering. 

 

As much caster as they can reasonably get.

Improves high speed straight line driving. If the steering is too heavy at slow speed you can back this off a bit.

 

This is for radial tires.

 

Greg

 

Edited by Gregarious13
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