Worden18 Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 Hey guys, I've never done brakes on my own (yeah I know, imagine that) except for on my Meadowbrook. Its the only way to learn I guess. So, as you can imagine, I'm not the greatest at this stuff. My shop manual shows an awesome exploded view of the rear brakes, but nowhere in the whole "brakes" section does it tell me anything about the removal of the backing plate. I'd like to take it off just so I can clean it up really good. So, everything has been removed from the backing plate, including the 5 nuts/washers that look to me like they are holding it on to the axle(?). The bolts are still sticking through. If I want to remove the plate then, should I tap those bolts back with my brass hammer and then.....the plate should come right off? Or would it be held up still because of the axle seal? I don't want to mess with the axle seal(s) right now as they don't appear to be leaking at all. I just want to get the backing plate off and clean it, then reassemble (the driver's side) the brakes. I hope I explained this right. I know this is elementary to most of you fellas, but that's why I'm here; you guys know and I don't. Please help me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpollo Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 You have already passed the biggest challenge and that is getting the drums off. The backing plate has 5 bolts which you have already removed. A good swat with a hammer should get the plate off BUT you should clean any sand and dirt from around behind so it does not fall into the bearing when the plate comes loose. There will be several shims between the axle housing and the backing plate. These are for the bearing adjustment which should allow about .005 end play on the axle. There are two seals, outer and inner. If there are no leaks at present, then the inners are good. The outers are easy to change but if they are not leaking then they should be OK. It is likely someone put gasket sealer on the shims..... there is no gasket..... and that is what is holding the backing plates on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 And make sure to NOTE how many shims there are and ideally their orientation and exactly how & where they go on...........from the ones I've played with the outer edge of these shims can get a bit of crud attached and is easy if not careful to get it mixed between the shims on reassembly, ideally you should be able to clean up the backing plate area pretty well without removing the backing plate.........is function is the hold the shims, seals & bearings in place & give the brake wheel cylinder something to sit on & the brake bits somewhere to locate against.........andyd. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) As stated by AndyD, there is really no need to remove the backing plate for a brake job. I just put a big oil change pan under it, scrape and brush away the crud. The, empty the pan, add some solvent, slide it under the backing plate and scrub with a parts brush. Edited April 13, 2018 by kencombs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 Pics or it didn’t happen! Lol. I am interested as I need to replace 1 outer bearing seal too. Following along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worden18 Posted April 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 Thanks for the responses fellas. After reading other's advice, I plan on leaving the backing plate right where it is, and simply clean it up good. Should be just fine. Keith, I'll try to get some pics posted up again soon. I probably won't work on the car in this nasty cold; I don't have a heated garage and am waiting for some warmer weather again, which seems to be hard to get in these parts LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashBuddy Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 FWIW I glopped on grease on and around the bearing to protect it from cascading grime. Should have cleaned it per AndyD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 Some rear brake backing plate and outer seal pic's... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worden18 Posted April 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 Monday April 23: I’m at a standstill with the brakes. I was reassembling the driver’s side and was ready to put the shoes on. Well, the ones Bernbaum sent me are much too small. They must be for a different year?...or 10” drums? Not sure, but I’m sending them back tomorrow. Kinda sucks, I was Looking forward to finishing the driver’s side tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 (edited) Well that sucks Worden. Hopefully Bernbaum will make this right for you. In the meantime here is a Meadowbrook to cheer you up. Is it just me or are you also seeing more 4 Dr Sedans getting love these days? I wish I could find a visor locally. I like it! Edited April 25, 2018 by keithb7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worden18 Posted April 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 14 hours ago, keithb7 said: Well that sucks Worden. Hopefully Bernbaum will make this right for you. In the meantime here is a Meadowbrook to cheer you up. Is it just me or are you also seeing more 4 Dr Sedans getting love these days? I wish I could find a visor locally. I like it! Thanks for the encouragement Keith. Just frustrated that I have to wait a bit longer. I have more work than just the rear brakes I need to finish up. I think there was so many 4 door cars built that it’s easier to find an unmolested one vs. a coupe or similar model. Many of those have been rodded out, and you don’t “un-rod” them. I’d also like to find an affordable visor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 I just placed my order last night for a new visor and wheel skirts. 2 months delivery likely. Then I will get it primed and painted by a local painter. Likely late July or August before the parts are on my car. What other work are you doing besides brakes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worden18 Posted April 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 9 hours ago, keithb7 said: I just placed my order last night for a new visor and wheel skirts. 2 months delivery likely. Then I will get it primed and painted by a local painter. Likely late July or August before the parts are on my car. What other work are you doing besides brakes? I need to fabricate a heat shield for the carb. I have some aluminum my boss gave me that I'm hoping will work. I need to replace the negative battery cable. Oil change, tranny and rear axle fluids, possibly a tune up. Maybe a new aluminum radiator as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worden18 Posted May 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) April 30, 2018: Got the correct rear shoes in the mail today from Bernbaum. I have a vintage spring removal/installation tool that I like to use, but I don't like to put an ugly dent in the new shoes with the point when stretching the spring across to both shoes. So I used this little aluminum block that has a couple of holes in it. The hole is big enough for the tip of the tool to get in there, but small enough to where it doesn't touch the shoe when squeezing the tool and putting pressure on it to stretch the spring. Worked pretty slick. Rant: Since I made the mistake of updating my Iphone to the latest version, I can no longer download pics from my phone to my computer....stupid Apple! I'm gonna dump Apple and buy an Android or something else soon. So I have to download the pics directly from my phone to this site, then go onto my computer and type everything related to the post. Its too hard to type it in using my phone. I can't use both thumbs on the thing like today's kids can. Ah...technology. Can't wait to get the Meadowbrook back on the road again. No computers in my baby! Edited May 1, 2018 by Worden18 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worden18 Posted May 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) April 30, 2018: I don't have the correct tool to set the shoes, so I did it a different way. I used a scale to make a mark 2" in on the shaft and used that as a reference when measuring from the shaft to each corner of the shoes. I had to make a mark (with a permanent ink pen) since the shaft is tapered and one would certainly get different readings if you measured with a caliper from just anywhere on the shaft. When measuring up to the corners I put one end of the caliper on the very back of the key seat as a reference. I also measured from corner to corner (and center to center across the shoes) with the 12" caliper and adjusted the shoes as needed as I went. It was kind of a bear, but the only way I could think of doing it without actually having that brake tool that slides on to the shaft and swings from side to side. I also put a light coat of anti-seize on the shaft and key seat, which I can't imagine NOT doing. Edited May 1, 2018 by Worden18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackTheFinger Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Worden18 said: April 30, 2018: Got the correct rear shoes in the mail today from Bernbaum. I have a vintage spring removal/installation tool that I like to use, but I don't like to put an ugly dent in the new shoes with the point when stretching the spring across to both shoes. So I used this little aluminum block that has a couple of holes in it. The hole is big enough for the tip of the tool to get in there, but small enough to where it doesn't touch the shoe when squeezing the tool and putting pressure on it to stretch the spring. Worked pretty slick. My brake tools were at my shop when I was decided to work on my P15 at home yesterday.. Instead of a 40 mile round trip I used a Philips screwdriver to get the springs seated.. Edited May 1, 2018 by MackTheFinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worden18 Posted May 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said: My brake tools were at my shop when I was decided to work on my P15 at home yesterday.. Instead of a 40 mile round trip I used a Philips screwdriver to get the springs seated.. You have some skill...and some strength to stretch that spring with a screwdriver. I've tried that before on other cars and could never ever do it! That old tool I have works great for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worden18 Posted May 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) So fellas, I have some questions. 1. What I need to know is how tight to screw on that castle nut?? Should it just be good and snug...and then put the cotter pin back in? Should it be torqued to a certain ft. lbs? I don't think my manual says anything about it. Just wanna make sure I get it right so there's no problems or breakdowns. 2. When spinning the drum (after its on of course), there's going to be some natural resistance just because of the rear axle, correct? Let's say I have the clearance perfect (I hope I do) between the drum and the shoes; the rear wheel shouldn't spin freely (and effortlessly) like the front wheels, correct? Yeah I know, these are probably some silly questions, but I don't do this stuff every day. Right now, after putting on the drum, there is some resistance. I can't really tell if the shoes are dragging, or if the wheel is supposed to have some resistance because of the axle. Edited May 1, 2018 by Worden18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackTheFinger Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Worden18 said: You have some skill...and some strength to stretch that spring with a screwdriver. I've tried that before on other cars and could never ever do it! That old tool I have works great for me. More likely just lucky... I generally use my brake tools but I didn't feel like driving all the way to the shop to get them just to put on 4 springs.. It was Sunday and I had a screwdriver so Bob's your uncle,,, or something like that... There was a lot involved... I posted a little about it in another thread about lining thickness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) Needle-nose vice grips were my tool of choice for spring removal and installation. It was all I had that would do the job! Worden, there are tons of folks here with a lot more experience than me. However I recently completed my first Lockheed brake job, so I can share what I did, with good results. I set up the major adjustments as close as I thought was correct, not having the Million Dollar brake tool. Then I put the drums on. I tweaked one of the anchor adjustment cams tighter. Moving the shoe outward, until I could no longer turn the drum by hand. Then I back it off slightly so I could again turn the drum. Then I did the same with with the adjacent major adjuster cam on the same brake assy. Then I believe that the shoes were as close to the drum as possible without them touching the drums. I did this on all four drums. You must be aware that these cams turn in opposite directions, to their adjacent cam on the same wheel, to get the desired effect. Throw in left and right wheels, and front and rear, it can get confusing. It worked well for me once I had my head wrapped around the process. Edited May 1, 2018 by keithb7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) My 1953 book reads under Rear Axle section: Axle shaft nuts, 142 ft lbs minimum. Edited May 1, 2018 by keithb7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 12 hours ago, Worden18 said: April 30, 2018: I don't have the correct tool to set the shoes, so I did it a different way. I used a scale to make a mark 2" in on the shaft and used that as a reference when measuring from the shaft to each corner of the shoes. I had to make a mark (with a permanent ink pen) since the shaft is tapered and one would certainly get different readings if you measured with a caliper from just anywhere on the shaft. When measuring up to the corners I put one end of the caliper on the very back of the key seat as a reference. I also measured from corner to corner (and center to center across the shoes) with the 12" caliper and adjusted the shoes as needed as I went. It was kind of a bear, but the only way I could think of doing it without actually having that brake tool that slides on to the shaft and swings from side to side. I also put a light coat of anti-seize on the shaft and key seat, which I can't imagine NOT doing. The red is a real no-no in my understanding. The axle taper gripping the drums internal bore is what transmits most of the torque. Adding any sort of lube now requires the key to absorb the load. If it starts to rotate on the shaft even a little, the movement will eventually damage the key, drum and/or the axle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worden18 Posted May 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 hour ago, kencombs said: The red is a real no-no in my understanding. The axle taper gripping the drums internal bore is what transmits most of the torque. Adding any sort of lube now requires the key to absorb the load. If it starts to rotate on the shaft even a little, the movement will eventually damage the key, drum and/or the axle. Okay, thanks man. I will pull the drum off (its just sitting on there right now) and clean everything off. I love this forum. There's so many people willing to take the time and help. I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted May 4, 2018 Report Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 5/1/2018 at 11:20 AM, Worden18 said: Okay, thanks man. I will pull the drum off (its just sitting on there right now) and clean everything off. I love this forum. There's so many people willing to take the time and help. I appreciate it. I have anti sieze on mine too. If you put the drum on to spec it shouldn't move. When I first built my 46 my drums were moving. Took me quite a while to figure out the little clink noise only happened the first time going forward after backing up..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted May 4, 2018 Report Share Posted May 4, 2018 Maybe it would help to read through this old thread over on the HAMB. Lots of experience there https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tapered-axles-lubed-or-dry.317314/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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