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LA engine with early V8 clutch housing.


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I think that the A engines and LA engines have the same bolt pattern.  But, the location of the locating dowels was moved.  So, my question is :

Has anyone had experience in using a later engine, (318, 340, 360 etc) with the early clutch housing? 

 

Is it (would it) be possible to accurately relocate the alignment dowels or holes to do that? 

 

I have a 59/60 clutch housing which has both the flat 6 and early v8 hole pattern, and hydraulic clutch setup.  I also have the suspended pedals to use in my 56.  Decision time:  do I keep my 6 or go to an 8?  If and 8, the cheapest solution would be a newer running LA rather than finding and rebuilding an A or earlier.

 

The engine in it needs a valve job at least.  I also have a rebuildable core from a 56 Plymouth,should I decide to stay with the six.

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as per the Mopar engine book and data from Allpar web site, the A/LA/modern hemi all share the same bolt pattern on the bell and sirect interchange....It continues to say that the bell is close to fitting early rear distributor hemi in that it bolts to the early hemi engine but the flywheel/torque converter will not be in the proper position due to overhang issues of the crank.  Easily overcome with an available adapter that acts as a spacer.  

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2 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

as per the Mopar engine book and data from Allpar web site, the A/LA/modern hemi all share the same bolt pattern on the bell and sirect interchange....It continues to say that the bell is close to fitting early rear distributor hemi in that it bolts to the early hemi engine but the flywheel/torque converter will not be in the proper position due to overhang issues of the crank.  Easily overcome with an available adapter that acts as a spacer.  

 

Thanks, after rereading the info at Allpar,  I found that only the very early hemis had a different locating dowel location.  even those could be interchanged by removing the dowels.   But, I'm still not clear on which early hemis, only that it wasn't the extended block Chryslers in 53/54.

 

But I think all that means that my clutch housing meant for an A series 318 should work with a later LA or even magnum.  IF, I decide to not use my flattie.

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On 4/9/2018 at 7:46 AM, Plymouthy Adams said:

as per the Mopar engine book and data from Allpar web site, the A/LA/modern hemi all share the same bolt pattern on the bell and sirect interchange....It continues to say that the bell is close to fitting early rear distributor hemi in that it bolts to the early hemi engine but the flywheel/torque converter will not be in the proper position due to overhang issues of the crank.  Easily overcome with an available adapter that acts as a spacer.  

 

On 4/9/2018 at 10:41 AM, kencombs said:

 

Thanks, after rereading the info at Allpar,  I found that only the very early hemis had a different locating dowel location.  even those could be interchanged by removing the dowels.   But, I'm still not clear on which early hemis, only that it wasn't the extended block Chryslers in 53/54.

 

But I think all that means that my clutch housing meant for an A series 318 should work with a later LA or even magnum.  IF, I decide to not use my flattie.

 

I'll try to keep this succinct.......

All pre-62 V8 engines, as well as the L6 engines have an extended crank flange. The pre-62 A engines, and the various EarlyHemi engines, except for the 51-53 Chrysler 331,  all share the same block bolt and dowel pattern. The V8 crank flange bolt pattern also changed with the 1962 model year.

If you only redrill a pre-62 bell and relocate the dowels you will need a spacer for the crank flange and, you will either redrill an early flywheel bolt pattern for the late pattern or you will put an early ring gear on a late flywheel.  Keep in mind that over-laying a late 6-bolt pattern onto an early 6/8 bolt pattern some holes will overlap.

As to the bellhousing, most often, there will not be adequate material in the area where the new dowel needs to be. It has been done where locating dowels have been drilled in a 'new' area of the bell after 'zeroing' the bell to the crank.

There is additional info on my web page.

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I think I'll stay with the 6 for now.  But will continue to keep the v8 idea open in the future. since I want power steering, ready availability of pumps and mounts, as well as maybe A/C would be a plus.  I had a 277 but gave it away since it needed far more machine work and parts than I wanted to put into it.  Maybe a poly 318 should be in my future??

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while the poly is indeed a nice engine..it is on par of replacing the flathead with a slant 6 as far as technology and over the counter parts are concerned...they also were never known for fuel economy either....13 miles to the gallon at 55 MPH    13 miles to the gallon 116 MPH......lol

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Lack of parts support can be an issue , however a lot of the internals, timing chain, sprockets, oil pump etc interchanges with the LA series.You can even drop an LA crank in them to use later flywheels.   As far as technology goes, the only advantages the LA held of over the a back in the decision day where economic.  Lighter castings, simpler heads  to machine etc.  The head design is quite similar to the big block chevy, remember the 'porcupine head' label when chevy rolled out the big block for NASCAR?  Excellent flow with the offset valves.

 

There are guys making big horsepower with them today.  Only problem is, they spend BIG money to do it!

 

I drove my Dad's 57 318 a lot in high school and my own 273 Dart 4barrel 4 speed years later so the two designs aren't new to me.  Gas mileage was directly related to the weight of my size 11 1/2s!  When the 318 was used for family stuff, we regularly saw 18+, when I drove it dating, not so much!.

 

I'd bet the poly would outperform the Magnum version using modern electronics.  But, I'm not going to waste the money needed to find out.

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I love seeing early engines in these trucks. A poly would look pretty good in there and be a nice upgrade over the flatty. The only thing I dont know is how the bell housings and such convert.

I used a 56-57 325 block with a 54-56 bell housing and everything matched up. Whatever you decide, keep us updated!

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19 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

while the poly is indeed a nice engine..it is on par of replacing the flathead with a slant 6 as far as technology and over the counter parts are concerned...they also were never known for fuel economy either....13 miles to the gallon at 55 MPH    13 miles to the gallon 116 MPH......lol

Hi-teh, lo-tech or no-tech....sorta depends on the desired outcome.

If kencombs wants something 'interesting' there are a multitude of options as we have discussed prior. The Chrysler version of the 'poly', which I prefer to call 'Spitfire' (since that is what is embossed in the valve cover) is one helluva a performer. With a FiTech efi on top it will do just about anything one would ask of it.

The late 4.7 is under-rated by the hot-rod crowd but still a good performer and most folks will stare a long time trying to figure out what it is. Yes, a bit more complicated.

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I have purchased a couple of low mileage 4.7's for future upgrades, one 5 speed manual, one 4 speed automatic, even have posi 3.5 and rear sway bars.... and have 4.7 4 speed auto in my truck I tow the trailer with, with the Hellwiq spring kit now on the animal, I am impressed with its performance.  I also have a very nice running 5.2 with 4 speed automatic in a truck given to me..it is wrecked but did not come close to hitting engine or other drivetrain components, you know, damage out weighs the street value....totaled it is.

 

I have put a many mile on the old poly block 318's and they are not to be laughed at for certain...just I never found any economy even with the most gingerly applied driving skills...to that end is my icksnay on the block as I have no need to pump up any small block 8 or V6 for that manner...do not overlook the 3.6 Pentastar V6....lots of ponies in those 221 cubes.....I think lowest street dress is 283 HP..Challenger 3.6 I believe is 305 HP and would be the cats meow...

 

EMBRACE THE ELECTORONICS....THEY GOING TO BE WITH US FOR A WHILE YET TO COME...
 

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