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T5 Swap or R10 Rebuild?


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I know there is alot of passion when certain transmissions are mentioned, but please bear with me. I currently have a 54 Plymouth column shift 3 speed with the R10 overdrive. I was going to use it behind my 325 Hemi but found broken gear teeth when I pulled the side cover to swap it with the truck transmission cover (different shifter arms). My V8 bell housing has been drilled and tapped and a centering ring made to use my stock flathead transmission or the R10. They both have the same pattern and input shaft size etc. I listed the pros and cons I thought of for both trannys. My main concern is the strength of the stock R10 transmission. Will it last behind the V8 or am I better off going the WC T5 route? How much ballpark would it cost to rebuild the R10? 

R10 Pros:

Bolts up to current bell housing/linkages

Has parking brake

Retro look and feel

R10 Cons:

Harder to get parts for

Strength? Will it handle the hemi?

 

T5 Pros:

Will handle the hemi since its used behind modern V8's

Easy to find

Easy to source parts

 

T5 Cons:

No parking brake

How hard will it be to find the 9 1/2" input shaft

Need to redrill the bell housing.

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T5 is actually a very weak transmission. It will live if you drive it easy, but they do not take kindly to any kind of power. Any T5 that will take 'some' power ( Ford/ GM WC ) is going to have the shifter in the wrong position and you'll have to hybrid an S10 tailshaft onto it. Really it's a cheap transmission that gets used a lot because it's a cheap transmission. Perfect for flathead power though

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that is why they were produced for over 20+ years and were in so many different platform...the tranny has survived and has been improved over time from the introduction into the car world by AMC.  Not an argument...just a note that the tranny is packaged in many states of build and internal toughness based on application.  Buy the one that meets your needs and you will not be disappointed.  Buy a light weight and connect it to some muscle...the failure is not the transmission, the failure is your lack of knowing what you were working with.

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I've put some T5's through hell in my day, never killed one...but they don't like a lot of horsepower, and Matt is right, the ones that do came from 5.0L mustangs usually and won't work as is.  If it were me, I'd talk to a few transmission shops (older the better shops) and see if there is anything they can do to repair and upgrade you R10.

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I admit to a fondness for ODs.  When wired correctly they are really a 5 speed with auto shift in 2 gears.  Low, never used with OD, the 2nd and 3rd become 2--3 and 4-5.  Terrible explanation I know but when you drive one, you'll understand.  In suburban traffic it's possible to drive in 2nd, in and out of OD and almost never have to shift.

 

That said, My '56 is getting an A833 OD from a late 70s, early 80s van.  Really low first, good for trailering and parades.  Nice OD ratio, and the toughest of the choices.  I have collected the parts I need to add a pinion mounted parking brake.

 

I have the van shifter and brackets.  That mounts the shifter a lot further forward than the normal car location, similar to a t5 from an S10.  Gonna have to fab rods though as they somehow have become lost.

Edited by kencombs
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I understand the S10 mechanical speedo tail housing for the speedo and shifter location. However, I am worried about finding the correct input shaft that shows to only have come on Holden’s. 

 

I think I read somewhere that the R10 transmission came behind some V8 cars when I was browsing the car forums on here. In all honesty, it’s only a 325 built close to the D500 specs and should be in the 300hp/325tq range, so we are not talking a monster V8 either. Secondly, it generally sees highway use and not light to light action.

 

What is the base R10 transmission considered? I did a search last night and didn’t come up with much for parts. Ifs it’s just syncros and bearings, I could tackle that in my garage and if I remember correctly, the broken gears were bronze or brass indicating syncros. Is it a T85 or T86? Are there marks to identify it?

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3 hours ago, Shovelhead Dave said:

Look for a R11, has 4 pinion planetary vs 3 pinion in R10. Was used behind lots of V8's.

 

Did Mopar ever have a R-11??

Have seen lots of Ford r-11's on ebay but the input shaft and mount pattern are not the same as Mopar.

 

If your current 3 spd. is side shift type and of the same type syncho's (pin or brass spider type, later years or early) the parts can be interchanged with the R-10 except for the main shaft.

If your into the job, taking the OD housing and parts off to inspect them for damage you may be able to just rebuild the 3 spd. part if the OD section parts are  good!

Input shaft, rear output shaft etc. bearings and seals  are available from local bearing supply houses. Other parts are not hard to find Except the OD pieces can be Very hard to get.

 

I believe rebuild instruction are avail. on this forum in the downloads section located at the header of this  forum.

 

Probably I would get the truck up and running, drive through the summer as is and inspect the OD parts of the R-10 which will really give you a choice at that point.

 

Very nice truck and on your hemi work!   ;)

 

DJ

Edited by DJ194950
add rebuild instructions location
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10 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

that is why they were produced for over 20+ years and were in so many different platform...the tranny has survived and has been improved over time from the introduction into the car world by AMC.  Not an argument...just a note that the tranny is packaged in many states of build and internal toughness based on application.  Buy the one that meets your needs and you will not be disappointed.  Buy a light weight and connect it to some muscle...the failure is not the transmission, the failure is your lack of knowing what you were working with.

 

This is all very true, but the usable T5's all were only rated at 310 ft/lb or less.. The T5Z is rated to 330 but go for quite a bit.  The 4.0L Mustang 2005-2010 had a very strong T5 rated for about 350 ft/lbs but it is a very different transmission

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Ply Roadking on this forum knows these OD trans, and rebuilds a lot of them. When finished they are installed in his ‘40 Plymouth and test driven before being shipped. I know him personally, and can tell you he does good work. As a former resident of California, he visits family there a couple times a year, and might be able to pick up and deliver for you. Currently located in Des Moines Iowa.

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I cannot say definitely that MOPAR used them, I am only 90 per cent certain. My father had a '55 Plymouth with overdrive and I think

he referred to it as the "heavy duty" version which I suspect was thr R=11 given Chrysler Corporations long association withe Borg=Warner

3 speeds.

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Packards had both straight 6's and 8's, so that should be a vote for an R11. I like overdrives because a lot of shifting is done with the foot pedal. Five speed trannys require clutching and manual shifting. I like my hands on the steering wheel. 

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I looked at the book right quick...there is no such thing as quick data to be gleaned...

14 hours ago, Shovelhead Dave said:

I cannot say definitely that MOPAR used them, I am only 90 per cent certain. My father had a '55 Plymouth with overdrive and I think

he referred to it as the "heavy duty" version which I suspect was thr R=11 given Chrysler Corporations long association withe Borg=Warner

3 speeds.

In my reading up on the subject, Borg Warner was happy to have that association...the original overdrive came straight from Chrysler R&D and was given to BW by Chrysler so Chrysler would not have to gear up and put yet another part production line in place...part of the deal for BW to make these units for Mopar was the fact they would be allowed to market them universally across the BW line up to other car makers...

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If you end up swapping the R10 and want to sell it, let me know. 

Plenty of 11 second Mustangs run T-5’s. 330 lb/ft of torque capability will be plenty for your HEMI and probably more than the R10 can handle. Are you racing it or driving it with the occasional beat session?  The tail housing swap is easy and doesn’t change any durability. 

I have a Ford R11 on a T-18 trans if your interested for parts. 

 

Adam

Edited by Adam H P15 D30
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Once we get this big show over with and some time on the engine, I am going to have to make a decision. The truck is generally a highway cruiser due to our location. I am concerned about the R10 longevity, but going the T5 also means finding the 9 1/2” input shaft which might be an issue. Decisions, decisions.

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