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Is this valve/tappet noise???


jimy

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I've been lurking here for a while and am finally posting. 

 

My Dodge truck has a fairly loud tick that I'm hoping to diagnose/fix.  It has had this ever since I got it back from the fellow who restored it 4 years ago.  The engine was rebuilt as part of the restoration. Perhaps the tick has gotten worse, perhaps not.  I have attached a sound file that hopefully some of you can listen to.  It probably does sound worse with this phone recording than it does in person.  I can't seem to pinpoint the sound with my ear/stethoscope/etc.  I did remove the fuel pump and the sound remains.  I also pulled each spark plug wire individually.  Plugs also look fine (all the same).

 

I know these engines can have some valve noise, but this seems like too much.  Any ideas as to the source?

 

FULL DISCLOSURE - this is a 1935 KC pickup which doesn't quite match the years covered by this forum but I do think this forum is the best source of info.  Also, this year truck has no access panel for easily checking the valve clearances which is why I haven't done that yet. 

35 Dodge.m4a

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The sound file does not play on my iPad.  However, one source of a loud tick could be an exhaust leak.  Carefully check the exhaust manifold and donut gasket for leaks.  Since the engine was rebuilt, perhaps the manifold was never retightend properly.  You could try snugging up the manifold nuts.  Do this gently however.  I don’t have the torque specs in front of me, but the manifold bolts are not tightened very much.

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Oh - I can definitely access the valve tappet area.  It just has to be from underneath or remove the manifolds and access from above.  My understanding is that for later models the front wheel is removed and there is an access panel (part of the "inner fender") which can be removed for "easier" access.    I just don't want to miss something fairly obvious that isn't the valve tappet adjustment before I do that.

 

Also - I did snug the manifold bolts and that didn't help. 

 

thanks,

 

Jim

Edited by jimy
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A Fuel Pump can also cause this noise. Get a Long Handled Screw Driver and Place the tip of it near the Fuel Pump when engine is running - the other end on your ear.

Listen. Locate the noise. The fuel pumps get to the tick tick tick noise sometimes also. This is one method of listening around the engine and isolating a noise (My bad you say you removed your fuel pump)

Tom

Edited by Tom Skinner
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Yes, I should have pushed the issue when I got the truck back.  Too late now.  I do think it has gotten louder since I received it.  To further complicate things the restoration took around 10 years and the engine was rebuilt (by a machine shop) in the middle of that restoration.  So any complaints would be years and several people away from me.  I got a pretty good deal and a nice looking truck, but I was certainly left with bugs to work out.

 

Yes, I had removed the fuel pump and ran it - no change in noise.  I will pull the fan belt and see if that makes a difference (probably a long shot, but easy).  If it is valve train related it seems to be just one cylinder to me.  It is definitely a tick rather than a clatter.

 

So, I do believe I will be checking the valves soon.   Not sure why I have avoided it so long - I certainly check/adjust valve on my motorcycles from time to time.

 

Has anyone had good success with a cold check of the valves?  I have seen it mentioned (perhaps with slightly adjusted clearances).   I just don't see myself doing a hot, running valve check while laying on the ground under the truck.   I imagine a cold check would at least show one cylinder out of adjustment (or an actual mechanical problem on one).

 

I appreciate the advice...Jim

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I set my valve clearance cold on my recent rebuild and all is fine. Invest in a set of Go-No Go feeler gauges. 

 

Cold settings recomendation I received from George Ashe’s son is for my 49 230 engine. It’s basically  .002 more than hot recommended setting.

 

Exhaust .012

Intake  .010

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lisle-68150-Go-No-Go-Feeler-Gauge/191008313420?epid=1039313128&hash=item2c78fb904c:g:hIsAAOSwc-tY3U6T

Edited by Branded
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Jimy,

Some mechanics set their Valves a tad over the .012 and .010 for if the vehicle will be driven on hot days for long periods the valves wouldn't burn up.

Usually this is the case in trucks. An old mechanic in the 70's told me real quiet valves are more likely to burn up. A little ticking keeps them ticking - he said in other words noisy  valves tended to be happier valves. They would last longer. Just a little story that I found comical that took place some 44 years ago.

Tom

 

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Well, I'm off to a slow start with checking the tappets.  The tappet cover gaskets were installed with a generous amount of a hardening sealant.  I managed to get the lower half of one cover loosened with a putty knife.  No access to the top half with the manifolds in place.  I tried to peel the cover off from below, but I feel like I could bend the cover if I pull any harder.  Will likely take the manifolds off next.

 

Jim

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A longer scraper may help. Don’t forget the hidden nut underneath in the center of the manifold.

Edited by Branded
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I got the manifolds off this morning and I will dig in further tomorrow.  I didn't see any evidence of an exhaust leak.  I saw that hidden nut during my 30 minutes under the truck yesterday. 

 

What is the hole in the block just behind the exhaust manifold near the flywheel?  It appears to be covered with paper or foil glued over it.  Is there something better than that I can do?  It has partially peeled of.

Thanks again - it feels good to have an actual start on this rather than just worrying about it...

 

Jim

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3 hours ago, Tom Skinner said:

Breather Tube hole?

 

Sure soumds like the hole for the crankcase road draft tube, you going to need that. Don’t know why someone would cover it with tape.

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I have included a picture of the hole, sounds like it is the crankcase road draft tube.  I'm guessing it was taped up when the block was painted and then forgotten about.

 

Not surprisingly, this is becoming a larger project.  I will need to locate that tube and it is also a good time to get the heat riser working.  Hope that comes apart without too much difficulty.

 

I did get the tappet covers off and the gasket surfaces cleaned.  Next is checking the clearances.

 

Jim

IMG_3478.JPG

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I could believe the noise could be something like a wrist pin, but I did the spark plug wire removal thing and that had no effect.

 

Oil on the distributor cam lube felt sounds interesting.  I will look into that after I adjust the valves and see how it sounds.  Are you saying that friction would pull on the mechanical advance? And then either hold it fully advanced or perhaps bounce the timing around?

 

One other thought is the missing crankcase vent tube.  Perhaps that in place would muffle more noise that I might expect.

 

Jim

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It has been going a bit slow but I have been making progress.  I finally took a look at the clearances today and see that a tappet for #1 cylinder had a loose lock nut and had about 1/8" of clearance.  I have to believe that is my noise.

 

Can someone tell me the order of intake/exhaust tappets/valves so I can set them properly?  I'm assuming it has to line up with the manifold order, but I want to be sure.

 

I separated the manifolds for what has to be the first time since 1935.  Three of the long bolts broke.  Oddly, with almost no pressure on the wrench.  I really cranked on the 4th one and that one came out intact.  So I am messing with that and also getting the heat riser working (it is manual for this year and was stuck in "winter").  I have also located a crankcase vent tube to install.

 

thanks,

 

Jim

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Hey Don, did you purposely match your engine to your snap-on ratchet lol.   I haven't adjusted valves on one of these engines yet, but it's kinda odd to adjust the #2&5 intake valves twice isn't it?

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