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Heater box questions


Rjpond

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Ok, the heater box looks complete and in reasonable good shape. I’ve read that I need to pressure check the heater core for leaks.  Is it as simple as attaching a garden hose to one of the brass fittings and plugging the other brass fitting? I was wondering what pressure is adequate? Should I clean the heater core in the same manner as flushing a  radiator?

 

to check the fan motor can I set my battery charger to 6v and make sure that it is positive grounded? 

 

Lots for me to learn and thanks guys for your help

E4909B50-CD98-4211-93CC-7547F63489BA.jpeg

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I think your cooling system is unpressurized, so be careful.  Hose pressure can be up to 40+ psi on municipal water systems. So you pressure test for leaks could actually blow out the core. When I had mine tested they used low pressure compressed air.  Plugged one end with a rubber stopper duct taped it then with a hose withe a tapered rubber out let they put in 5 psi and dunked the core like you would a tire tube.  No bubbles,no leak.

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I have tested them by simply hooking them up to the heater hose while the heater is just laying to the side of the engine under the hood while the engine is running and up to operating temp.

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Thanks for the good ideas, looks like I’ve got a project for the next couple of evenings.  When I started this restoration, I wanted to gain a fixable knowledge about everything on this truck- the learning continues.

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 The heater box was tore down completely last night and yes the wires need replaced. I need to review my wire gauges as I know 6 volts require heavier wire. My truck hasn’t been on the road since the 70s so there’s lots to do 

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if you hook it to a 6V charger, or the the battery, I would make sure you put a fuse in the line somewhere.  As a matter of fact, I would use a meter and check for dead-shorts to ground.  Might save you cooking the motor. 

 

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if you take your time the odds of replacing the wire is great, not complicated at all, just be careful not to nick or cut any of the insulation on the windings.  Most time the wires are insulated and laced into the end loops, but if embedded, can get tedious removing the embedding material and accomplishing the repair.  Lacing with a good wax impregnated lacing cord should be all you need going back.  

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1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

if you take your time the odds of replacing the wire is great, not complicated at all, just be careful not to nick or cut any of the insulation on the windings.  Most time the wires are insulated and laced into the end loops, but if embedded, can get tedious removing the embedding material and accomplishing the repair.  Lacing with a good wax impregnated lacing cord should be all you need going back.  

 

now I'm trying to remember what I did rebuilding my heater...I know it has new wires, but I can't remember if I had it rebuilt or did it myself somehow...this age thing sucks

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36 minutes ago, ggdad1951 said:

 

now I'm trying to remember what I did rebuilding my heater...I know it has new wires, but I can't remember if I had it rebuilt or did it myself somehow...this age thing sucks

B&M on the north side do that motor for you?

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The problem with my wiring was the cloth falling off where it came through the heater housing.

There was a bare spot on the longer power wire also. I used some thread and wrapped the wires to replace the missing cloth, and wrapped it a little thicker then original.

Then I got into the wifes nail polish and found some black and red, painted the complete wire. The polish acts like a glue, it holds all the original cloth in place, and is flexible.

I can bend the wires around and does not crack or peel. I then wrapped the repaired wires in electrical tape heavily, where it exited the case, I did not have a new rubber grommet for it .... not perfect but will last as long as the motor does.

I just did this while watching tv and being bored, no real time involved.

I did pull apart the motor and lube the bushings and clean it, looked at the brushes. When finished putting the heater back together, I just connected it to the wifes 12 volt battery in her car to see if it would spin up, it went really fast  :P

You could probably run it for some months or years on 12 volt, but it will wear out much faster ... to check it you can try.

 

My thoughts are, they have plenty of new replacement motors with a new pig tail connected for pretty cheap.

I was unsure if I would stay 6 volt or switch to 12 at the time, I just repaired what I had for the time being.

IMG_20180328_095159954.jpg

Edited by Los_Control
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1 hour ago, Young Ed said:

B&M on the north side do that motor for you?

 

I think so...IF I remember right I gave them some wire to replace the original with...IF

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks guys for your ideas. I did the inner tube process to check the heater core for leaks and it had no leaks. Which made me happy. I also carefully rewired the motor and the heater fan is working. I’ll be looking at the wipers motor next

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  • 2 months later...
On 3/26/2018 at 9:58 PM, Plymouthy Adams said:

skinny bike tube....cut tube and connect the ends to the inlet/outlet...pressurize through the Schrader valve.....the tube will expand keeping the pressure low but viable for a submersion type leak test.

I have dismantled my heater, and was thinking of doing this, but was wondering if this would provide about the right amount of pressure.  Good to know this works.  (Thanks!)

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I also have the problem with brittle wire cloth casing.  The positive wire was much longer than necessary, and they had wrapped it around the intake ribs, and no matter how carefully I unwrapped it, it broke every place I had to bend it.  The wires are so dried out that I cannot tell what color they were.  The P15 wiring diagram does not show the heater (an option, maybe?), but the diagrams for P17 & 18, etc all show the wire going to the switch as being black.  The P17 & 18 show it as being 12 ga, and the P22 & 23, and the P24 & 25 show 14 ga.  So if that wire is black, what color should the positive (ground) wire be?   (Do I have this right? The fan motor positive goes to ground?)  It looks faintly lighter in color, but I cannot tell what color it might have been, and certainly could not tell if it had a tracer color.

 

(I have the MoPar Deluxe Model 36 heater.  Anyone else here have that one?)

 

Anyway, I am going to have to replace the wire all the way back into the motor.  I opened the motor to oil the bushings, but I'm not sure if I can get the coil part out of that half of the housing w/o destroying something.  I would like to replace the wire all the way back to the coils, but I have to remove it to do so.  Or I could solder on new wire at that point right inside the housing, and slide shrink tube down into the side of the case to cover them as far as I can get it in.  But does that shrink tube hold up OK in the heat generated by the motor?  (Maybe there is special heat-resistant tubing, but then how could you shrink it?!?)

Edited by Eneto-55
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1 hour ago, Eneto-55 said:

I posted this as a reply to a thread called "Heater Box" but hadn't noticed that I was posting to the truck forum, so doing it over again in the correct place.

 

A contributor in that thread noted a problem with brittle wire cloth casing.  Same problem here.  The positive wire was much longer than necessary, and they had wrapped it around the intake ribs, and no matter how carefully I unwrapped it, it broke every place I had to bend it.  The wires are so dried out that I cannot tell what color they were.  The P15 wiring diagram does not show the heater (an option, maybe?), but the diagrams for P17 & 18, etc all show the wire going to the heater switch as being black.  The P17 & 18 show it as being 12 ga, and the P22 & 23, and the P24 & 25 show 14 ga.  So if that wire is black, what color should the positive (ground) wire be?   (Do I have this right? The fan motor positive goes to ground?)  It looks faintly lighter in color, but I cannot tell what color it might have been, and certainly could not tell if it had a tracer color.

 

(I have the MoPar Deluxe Model 36 heater.  Anyone else here have that one?)

 

Anyway, I am going to have to replace the wires all the way back into the motor.  I opened it up to oil the bushings, but I'm not sure if I can get the coil part out of that half of the housing w/o destroying something.  I would like to replace the wire all the way back to the coils, but I have to remove it to do so.  Or I could solder on new wire at that point right inside the housing, and slide shrink tube down into the side of the case to cover them as far as I can get it in.  But does that shrink tube hold up OK in the heat generated by the motor?  (Maybe there is special heat-resistant tubing, but then how could you shrink it?!?)

 

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if the wire is that brittle there, I'd replace it all NOW!   You don't need a fire from an electrical short...

 

Meanwhile I can move this to the P15 side if you want...

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19 minutes ago, ggdad1951 said:

if the wire is that brittle there, I'd replace it all NOW!   You don't need a fire from an electrical short...

 

Meanwhile I can move this to the P15 side if you want...

Maybe would be best (to move it, or just delete it here, as I reposted it to the P15 side later)  and move this post as well.  

 

Question: Can the inside of the motor be removed w/o ruining something in the process?  If so, how?  Looking into the motor case, it appears to me that the brush assembly is fixed to the inside of the case in some way.  I can't see in there very well, but I don't see anything that it is attached to the plate-coil assembly.  Otherwise, I will just try to get shrink tube down in there as far as possible, w/o disturbing any more of the wire, so as to break more of the wire coating.  I'm wondering, though, if I can remove that part of the motor from its case, if I shouldn't use some of that special wire that has heat resistant coating for at least that part of it.

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6 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

Maybe would be best (to move it, or just delete it here, as I reposted it to the P15 side later)  and move this post as well.  

 

Question: Can the inside of the motor be removed w/o ruining something in the process?  If so, how?  Looking into the motor case, it appears to me that the brush assembly is fixed to the inside of the case in some way.  I can't see in there very well, but I don't see anything that it is attached to the plate-coil assembly.  Otherwise, I will just try to get shrink tube down in there as far as possible, w/o disturbing any more of the wire, so as to break more of the wire coating.  I'm wondering, though, if I can remove that part of the motor from its case, if I shouldn't use some of that special wire that has heat resistant coating for at least that part of it.

 

I'll merge the two, how's that?

 

You can take the motor to a rebuilder and have a new wire put on (best bet IMO)

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I have rewound motors before, so I'm not afraid to dig into it, but I did do that under the eye of an old timer who taught me how to do it.  Not being able to tell how it is put together, however, puts me off a bit.  It does appear that the brush plate is riveted to the end of the case, through the end.  Maybe there is enough wire there that it was fastened first, then the coil plates pressed in.  But that would still mean that I would probably need to drill out the rivets, because I don't think I could solder down inside that small motor case.  (I can't see that well anymore, and have to use a magnifying glass for close work, even though I wear tri-focals.)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Today I received a sample of a fire resistant (fiberglass) sleeving that slips over the wire.  I also requested some cloth type sleeving from another company, thinking that perhaps I would dismantle the motor, then slip this over the existing wire, w/o replacing it.  But just a few days ago I was out at an Amish machine shop that also rebuilds old engines, and they had the braided wire there.  I might just get a bit of wire from them, but still put this fiberglass stuff over the wire where it is inside the motor.  I don't know if it was the heat that caused the deterioration (brittleness) of the cloth wrapping, or just plain old age. 

The fire resistant sleeve I got is from Alpha wire, # PF2409.  This stuff sells by the 100' roll (or at least 50'), and I don't need anywhere near that much.  If it came in all different colors, and in shorter length rolls, I'd be tempted to re-do my whole wire harness with this stuff.  They also have other types of sleeve that is specifically made to be cut resistant.  (I hope that it is OK to mention the manufacturer by name.)

Edited by Eneto-55
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Added 07-11-2018 AM

I don't know if anyone is reading this, but I'm also wondering if someone knows if there would still be a risk of shorting out if I just put the fiberglass sleeve over the bare wire (after removing the crumbling cloth weave).  

Another question:  My heater motor positive ground wire just went to the metal case of the heater.  Should it have run at least to the dash, or would that have been common practice?  I realize that the heater case is grounded through the firewall mount, and obviously it worked that way, I'm just wondering what would have been considered the best approach.  If it is just going to the heater case, then that wire in much longer than necessary.

 

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