bergy Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 hello to all I used rusty hopes brake conversion, on my 53 b4 and I’m alittle concerned about the shortness of the spindle threads for the castle nut. I’ve bought the narrower nuts- and still can’t like the idea of redrilling the nut for the cotter pin. Anyone have any other solutions?I ve read how some have reversed the nut - castle in,but that really shortens the exposed thread to nut ratio. Any help is appreciated. ThankxThanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 I just reversed my stock nut, been doing just fine for last 7-8 years, and just did my king pins last week and nothing looks like it’s wearing or showing signs of moving when I had everything apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bergy Posted January 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 Thanks for help- so castle edges face in toward hub and pin goes in behind the nut- correct?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 51 minutes ago, bergy said: Thanks for help- so castle edges face in toward hub and pin goes in behind the nut- correct?? not on my truck(s), modern or antique 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, bergy said: Thanks for help- so castle edges face in toward hub and pin goes in behind the nut- correct?? The castle faces in, but the pin still goes through the slots in the nut. Your still having full thread count on the axle shaft , and the nut cannot turn at all to back off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 What does Rusty and Hope say as to the castle nut install? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bergy Posted January 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 Ok thanks for help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Roberts Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: What does Rusty and Hope say as to the castle nut install? He gives three different options with his instructions , one of which is the method mentioned of reversing the nut and putting the cotter pin in the slots . Woks for me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 The nut really can’t move as you can see in the pic. I recall NAPA couldn’t get me the nut here when I tried to order it years ago, so I used mine backwards as per the instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 Not the right way IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: Not the right way IMO. If anyone can tell me why it doesn't work, I'd consider a change, but truly the nut functions the exact same way it was intended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 8 hours ago, 4mula-dlx said: If anyone can tell me why it doesn't work, I'd consider a change, but truly the nut functions the exact same way it was intended Because for a bolt and nut to work correct AS DESIGNED, you should have 1-3 threads projection beyond the threaded fastener. The situation as shown is called "short bolt" and not recommend by any engineering standard. DEFINITELY not having the bolt SHORTER or inside the nut. Just because it "works" doesn't mean is right or safe. http://www.eng-tips.com/faqs.cfm?fid=1331 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 The threads are completely covered on the nut, and with the cotter pin in place and spreaded the nut cannot turn to back off, if it was able to overcome the pin, it wouldn’t matter which way it was, it would come apart. If this was a plain nut with no keeper, then I wouldn’t run it, but even if you replaced this nut you would now have to use one that is 1/2 or less the thickness actually then the one currently on there, and that IMO is even more unsafe for what it’s holding back, and still wouldn’t have the ability to grab any more threads, as they are not available the way the kit is designed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 38 minutes ago, 4mula-dlx said: The threads are completely covered on the nut, and with the cotter pin in place and spreaded the nut cannot turn to back off, if it was able to overcome the pin, it wouldn’t matter which way it was, it would come apart. If this was a plain nut with no keeper, then I wouldn’t run it, but even if you replaced this nut you would now have to use one that is 1/2 or less the thickness actually then the one currently on there, and that IMO is even more unsafe for what it’s holding back, and still wouldn’t have the ability to grab any more threads, as they are not available the way the kit is designed you actually proved my point...you are in short bolt situation and a soft cotter pin won't "save" you if it decides to move. As I said, just because you CAN, doesn't make it safe or sound engineering-wise. You can do what you want, but I'd never do that. Done and moving on, I don't want to make this into a "thing" betwixt us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 hours ago, ggdad1951 said: you actually proved my point...you are in short bolt situation and a soft cotter pin won't "save" you if it decides to move. As I said, just because you CAN, doesn't make it safe or sound engineering-wise. You can do what you want, but I'd never do that. Done and moving on, I don't want to make this into a "thing" betwixt us. No beef, just a plain old discussion..I'm not bothered. What I meant by the cotter pin, is even if the nut was turned the other way, it's still the only defence of the nut backing off, so it doesn't change its effectiveness with the nut turned in that regards..its strength remains the same. My issue with a new nut is the fact that the solid section would be very thin to be able to have the castle side face outwards, which means a lot less solid material.....is any of this 100% correct..no..but we are at the mercy of the kit, and I think the flaw comes to the spacer ring on the hub being a bit too thick, but shaving it may also cause interference with the disc, so your kind of stuck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bergy Posted February 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Ok the feedback has raised an due with safety. I am inline with the answer ggdad1951 gave.I don’t like the look of the short bolt from a safety point. I don’t know how to correct this- any suggestions? Maybe a nut with a new hole drilled- installed the proper way -but still only leaves a very thin full nut behind the cotter pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, bergy said: Ok the feedback has raised an due with safety. I am inline with the answer ggdad1951 gave.I don’t like the look of the short bolt from a safety point. I don’t know how to correct this- any suggestions? Maybe a nut with a new hole drilled- installed the proper way -but still only leaves a very thin full nut behind the cotter pin. It would be near impossible to drill a plain nut and have it land in the correct spot for bearing tightness, as that can change almost every time you disassemble and even changes with wear. I dont have my parts list anymore, but does Rusty Hope list a number for a new nut, or just says you can source one for yourself? I’m happy with how mines working, it hasn’t been apart in years up until a couple weeks ago, and I had no loosening, except for my worn out king pins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 The kit designer/supplier should engineer this safety fastener situation to satisfy DOT nut and cotter pin safety standard regulations. Once again what does rusty hope say as for an answer. The way it is is not right and a DOT safety inspection would fail the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bergy Posted February 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Your right inPenna. They have state inspection and that will not pass. I need an alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 26 minutes ago, bergy said: Your right inPenna. They have state inspection and that will not pass. I need an alternative. Will they even notice how the nut is positioned. When I go through a safety inspections (here in OZ), and I have to have one every year, they just check for side ways play of the wheel on the hub/axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 I had to pass a mandated safety check for mine to pass, nobody was looking for nuts reversed, only for tightness of the steering and suspension....only time you pull that nut is if you still have drum brakes, as you have to measure the drum thickness...not needed on disc brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 I think the solution I'd use, is just drill a new hole and use a nut/lock like this: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 If an inspection caught a loose wheel and pulled the grease cap...... A good quality nut with a couple sets of holes accurately drilled through it will work for cotter pin installation. Hacky work bugs the heck out of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Spoke to two very well trained and many years in the biz mechanics...both agreed a nut reversed is far better then one that is thin enough to be used with the castle facing out..drilling holes in nuts not meant for that is also not a proper solution IMO..you've destroyed the integrity of that nut not designed for that purpose. End of the day, the best option is to possibly see if the spacer ring can be shaved down for more thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Cutting the spacer ring is the best way and that should be done IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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