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Carburetor Blues


Lloyd

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Good morning all,

While back I saw a post by Tim Kingsbury mentioned using the larger carb such as dodge trucks used. These carbs have a 1-11/16" bore as compared to the stock one on my 39 which is 1-9/16".

That sounded like an easy way to open up the intake some so over the past months I've been kicking that can down the road. I bought a 50-58 dodge truck 1-11/16" bore E7T2  carb off eBay and it looked NOS. Real good shape. Then got a kit for it and went thru it. Originally my 39 came out with a 201 but I swapped it with a 218 and but still used the original intake from the 201, the current carb I had on this engine was a 53-54 Plymouth 1-9/16" bore D6U1 which I rebuilt as well. On the pic of the two carbs that shows the linkage arms - the one on the left is the D6U1  and the linkage arm is from the carb that was on the original 201 in the car. It was cracked, still worked but it is cracked, so when I first installed the rebuilt D6U1 I used a base with the different linkage such as the one shown on the E7T2, the carb on the right. Not knowing that this base had the larger bore, in fact I didn't know anything about this bore difference in these carbs till I saw Tims post. When I first started this engine with the D6U1 I had problems with a rough idle. My first thoughts was that I must have messed up rebuilding the D6U1somewhere. But after reading Tims post I decided to just swap to the larger carb and hopefully this would take care of things. When I first put the E7T2 on the car it ran worse than the D6U1. So I took it back off and it was at this time I noticed that the base I had used on the D6U1 was for the larger bore carbs. I swapped it back to the correct base and used the original linkage arm that was on the car. Then placed it back on the car. When I started the engine it idled like a champ.

Since Ive had this car I have managed to scrounge up a number of different carburetors for it. Mostly just to have around for parts. Looking at the bases of these carbs I've noticed some have a mounting peg for the fast idle cam that is thicker then others. All the ones I have with the thicker peg are for the larger bore carbs. Smaller diameter pegs are for the smaller bore carbs. I posted a pic of the two bases in front of the carbs. Not sure if this is definite but with what I have that's the case.

 

When I first mounted the E7T2 on my engine I could see the difference looking down the throttle bore. The edges of the intake stuck out into the bore. Thinking this may be why the carb would not idle well I found an intake on eBay for a 1952 dodge truck assuming it would be for the larger bore carb. After getting the intake I miked the diameter of the bore on my original intake manifold from a 1939 Plymouth 201 and compared it to the dodge truck intake. They are identical. Only difference I see is the dodge intake appears to be ported with a slight bevel to fit the larger bore. Ive included pics looking down the large bore carb base mounted on both intakes, the 201 intake and the dodge truck intake. Same carb base, different intakes. This may be old news to some but it appears that if I want to use the larger carb all I really might consider is porting the original intake manifold for the 201. The truck intake will fit but the intake drops the height of the carb by a full 1-3/4". I'm not going to use it..

 

I have to say that heading down this path has really been a can of worms but on  the other hand its been a learning experience.

 

I'm still not sure if the lack of porting on the original 201 manifold with the E7T2 mounted on it caused such a rough idle, I have my doubts. But yet when I swapped the correct base to the D6U1 it solved everything. I am considering porting the original 201 manifold and trying the E7T2 again.....

 

 

5a6df9c859b9b_Carbcompare.jpg.776a269634f512d24991de59a1efb311.jpg

 

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Sounds similar to the can I opened up! I ran out of good nonleaking carb bases (worn throttle shafts) and started looking for other options. I found a two barrel setup on a 55 dodge.  Throttle linkage was different and I ended up making brackets and using a throttle cable to make it work on my 40 Plymouth with a 55 230. It works but the gain wasn't worth the effort. I had to convert to electric choke too.

 

Then last fall at a swap meet the guy I bought the two barrel setup from had a nos 40 Plymouth carb sitting in a box. Once the car comes out of winter storage the two barrel setup is coming off.

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Hey Andy. How you been. 

I’m putting the smaller carb back on now and charging my battery. 

Speaking of throttle shaft leakage. It would be nice to be able to repair worn out bases. I know the shaft itself can be worn as well but all I can think of is drilling out and replacing the bushings in the base. Course now you would have to find the bushings. 

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Hi Lloyd! 

 

How are You? 

 

We're good here, I'm impatiently waiting for our 10 month old son to start helping me wrench on the cars. He crawled out into the garage today but was more interested in the floor jack than helping out. 

 

I've heard about someone that can install bushings on the throttle shafts, and thought about taking one to a machine shop. I need to get some thing figured out and get that car painted before the national meet this year, I think it's close enough to us to attend. 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

the ability to re-bush these plates is no greater than the task of trueing the shaft for the newly cut bushing for the throttle plate...

 

Hello mr Adams.  

Not sure I follow you. True a shaft is to straighten? Or re-sizing the shaft to fit the new bushing? Probably both. Anyway sounds like machine shop work. How would they do it? Install new bushings and align or install a solid shaft and drill it out to fit the throttle shaft. 

 

One other question. I have never ported an intake, heads or anything. I’ve only heard of it. If I wanted to put a bevel on my intake where the carb mounts can I do that or should a machine shop do it?

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11 minutes ago, plyroadking said:

Hi Lloyd! 

 

How are You? 

 

We're good here, I'm impatiently waiting for our 10 month old son to start helping me wrench on the cars. He crawled out into the garage today but was more interested in the floor jack than helping out. 

 

I've heard about someone that can install bushings on the throttle shafts, and thought about taking one to a machine shop. I need to get some thing figured out and get that car painted before the national meet this year, I think it's close enough to us to attend. 

 

 

 

Might have a while before he can help. 

Yeah these bases are always worn. Every time I rebuild a carb I go thru bases wiggling the shaft. Gotta be a way to renew them. I read on a post someone used thin brass leafs wrapped around the shaft. 

 

The meet sounds like fun. Hopefully I can make one some day. Be great to shop around and also look at some other rides. Maybe get some ideas or just see how others did things. 

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biggest question back to you, do you have the tools to do the very work you describe with assurance of accuracy?  If not, then by all means, the only avenue of approach is for some one so equipped to do the job.

 

As a side note, my sister in law lived in Friendswood for a couple years.

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Nope. I have a hand held grinder, a bench grinder and a drill press. That’s it. I’m fine with a machine shop. I only got the one intake...

 

Friendswood ain’t that big. But Houston is. To big. My wife and I bought some acreage and are building a house in lake lure NC. Hopefully be there by the end of this year. Retirement time for me. 

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9 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

biggest question back to you, do you have the tools to do the very work you describe with assurance of accuracy?  If not, then by all means, the only avenue of approach is for some one so equipped to do the job.

 

As a side note, my sister in law lived in Friendswood for a couple years.

I don't have the tools at home yet, but a coworker has a fully stocked machine shop that for a case of Stella Artois can be mine after hours. 

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1 minute ago, plyroadking said:

I don't have the tools at home yet, but a coworker has a fully stocked machine shop that for a case of Stella Artois can be mine after hours. 

well, you halfway there......if you were to come to my house for work or use facilities....you best leave that ditch water at home, bring gifts of tools or shop supplies....

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9 hours ago, plyroadking said:

He is from Bosnia and Stella is the pinnacle status symbol of success..... seems to me like a girly beer as it's not even 12oz...

Hey Andy, don’t open the Stella until the machine work is done!!!

 

 

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On 1/28/2018 at 10:25 AM, plyroadking said:

Hi Lloyd! 

 

How are You? 

 

We're good here, I'm impatiently waiting for our 10 month old son to start helping me wrench on the cars. He crawled out into the garage today but was more interested in the floor jack than helping out. 

 

I've heard about someone that can install bushings on the throttle shafts, and thought about taking one to a machine shop. I need to get some thing figured out and get that car painted before the national meet this year, I think it's close enough to us to attend. 

 

 

I know all about that!  My kids like the boxes too...  Or  grab tools and lose them for me in the house somewhere!  Little buggars!  LOL

 

I can't wait for them to grow up and help too.

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On 1/31/2018 at 10:19 AM, classiccarjack said:

I know all about that!  My kids like the boxes too...  Or  grab tools and lose them for me in the house somewhere!  Little buggars!  LOL

 

I can't wait for them to grow up and help too.

My Dad and I still have a steak dinner bet on who lost his screwdriver. I did replace it even though at this point I'm pretty sure it wasn't me 

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13 hours ago, Young Ed said:

My Dad and I still have a steak dinner bet on who lost his screwdriver. I did replace it even though at this point I'm pretty sure it wasn't me 

Believe it or not, after being away from home for like 30 years, I went to my mom's house in Kansas last year.  I always get talked into fixing my father in laws van.  While on my back, changing a ruptured brake line, I felt something strange under my back.  I rolled over and dug out a 3/8" box end open end wrench.  I know for a fact, that was from my teenage years.  I am guilty....  LOL

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On 28/01/2018 at 12:35 PM, Lloyd said:

 

Hello mr Adams.  

Not sure I follow you. True a shaft is to straighten? Or re-sizing the shaft to fit the new bushing? Probably both. Anyway sounds like machine shop work. How would they do it? Install new bushings and align or install a solid shaft and drill it out to fit the throttle shaft. 

 

One other question. I have never ported an intake, heads or anything. I’ve only heard of it. If I wanted to put a bevel on my intake where the carb mounts can I do that or should a machine shop do it?

Relieving ports on these engines can lower compression don't do it. 

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The information posted above is not exactly correct. Porting an engine is a process of cleaning up the intake ports to maximize air flow and that will not lower compression and is a good thing to do. Relieving an engine involves metal removal from the combustion chamber and will drop compression. Not a good thing to do. Pictured is an engine that has been relieved.

 

relieved.jpg

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Thanks for the clarification Don. I was wrong for using the term 'porting' in the first place. What I intend to do is just add the bevel on my original intake manifold where the carb mounts like the bevel on the dodge truck manifold I have in the pics above. Then mount the bigger bore Carb on it and see what happens.

Hopefully it will become the magic bevel..

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Yes was not quite accurate and specific on relieving.

As pictured above relieving combustion chambers around valves to cylinders lowers compression.

Port matching polishing the intake ports might very well be like using the "best oils" quite possibly could make the owner feel better.

In high performance, racing, tractor pulling maybe polishing and matching would be of value.

But for the 99% of the rest of us maybe not so much.

Edited by 55 Fargo Spitfire
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