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Using Engine ID Number to Title Car


Surfmerc

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You may want to pay an independent vin verifier in your area.

This is One company that does this. They can also do the complete Ca. DMV process for you and get your title Without ever you going to a dmv office.

Last I looked 2-300 bucks but often worth the trouble!

One Co....

http://www.asapvehicleverifiers.com/VV2LocationsServed.html

Good luck,

DJ

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19 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

 Does not apply to all cars. FoMoCo never had engine numbers,and I am sure they couldn't have been the only one.

Can't argue with that. I only have ever registered old Mopars. Still I remember that the title on my Dad's cars in the 60's(Mostly 50's Mopars)(his daily's)  used the engine number and my 52 Plymouth is titled that way today.

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Has anyone ever gone through titling, registering an abandoned vehicle?  What process is used by your DMV to do this? Generally this applies to garage men and or repair businesses where cars are left unpaid for by customers who had repairs done or where repairs cost didn't make economic sense and they just walk away.  In NY individuals can use the procedure in cases where they buy a property and the vehicle is found under a pile of lumber in the chicken coop.  You swear out an affidavit giving the details and affirming that you know of no person who might have a claim on the vehicle.  Then you could use the enginenumber on the frame to identify the car.  Here they issue a ninety day temporary non transferrable registration no titles in N Y till 73 or so.  Then after  90 days, if no one comes forward, you get a transferrable document.  Or you can do a Vermont mail in application, apparently you don't need to live in VT or have an address to register a car over 25 years old.  Vt then sends you plates,reg documents etc.  Then you take that stuff to your DMV and get your local stuff.  Around here lots of folks and small business run around with VT plates on trailers.  Aparrently you get a 5 year semi permanent plate and registration 5 years, for $15.00.

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1 hour ago, greg g said:

Has anyone ever gone through titling, registering an abandoned vehicle?  What process is used by your DMV to do this? Generally this applies to garage men and or repair businesses where cars are left unpaid for by customers who had repairs done or where repairs cost didn't make economic sense and they just walk away.  In NY individuals can use the procedure in cases where they buy a property and the vehicle is found under a pile of lumber in the chicken coop.  You swear out an affidavit giving the details and affirming that you know of no person who might have a claim on the vehicle.  Then you could use the enginenumber on the frame to identify the car.  Here they issue a ninety day temporary non transferrable registration no titles in N Y till 73 or so.  Then after  90 days, if no one comes forward, you get a transferrable document.  Or you can do a Vermont mail in application, apparently you don't need to live in VT or have an address to register a car over 25 years old.  Vt then sends you plates,reg documents etc.  Then you take that stuff to your DMV and get your local stuff.  Around here lots of folks and small business run around with VT plates on trailers.  Aparrently you get a 5 year semi permanent plate and registration 5 years, for $15.00.

There are probably 50 answers to that question,and probably a dozen or more change each election as politicians scramble to find creative ways of getting more income for themselves and their friends.

 

I did this back in Colorado in the late 70's by walking into the DMV in Denver,handing them the serial number tag off the firewall,and then walking out that day with a new title in my name after handing over around 10 bucks.  They ran a computer check on those serial numbers and that 35 Chevrolet pu had not been registered,reported stolen,or had a lien on it in the previous 10 years,so they wisely decided to sell me a title for it and get it back on the property tax books.

 

I also did this in NC 4 or 5 years ago with my 4x4 37 Dodge 1 ton,and despite it having a clear title in Va,NC refused to accept it and made me apply for and get a new NC title. They did this because it was the 37 body sitting on a 72 Ford F-250 4X4 chassis with the 390 FE Ford engine in it. In Virginia,it was just peachy-keen to register this truck using the original 37 Dodge title and serial number,which was the 37 Dodge engine serial number. The NC DMV confiscated and destroyed both the 72 Ford F-250 title and the 37 Dodge title,and made me get a notarized estimate as to the vehicle value from 3 different commercial garages,and then post a 3 year bond of that value with the state and wait 3 years to get a clean title. In the meantime,even though they sold me vehicle registrations and tags,I was unable to legally sell it as I had no title. I don't even think I could have legally scrapped it because the idea is to post  a bond in case someone shows up with a legal title to it and claims it's theirs.

 

The good news is that at the end of the 3 year waiting time I was issued a good title for a 1937 Dodge with a unique NC DMV serial number. They even put a cheesy stick-on VIN tag in the door jamb.

 

Even then,it was the luck of the draw,because I sold a 48 Dodge pu to a local friend that had a clear Va title with matching engine numbers,and he dumped a couple of grand in mechanics including a rebuilt engine with new pistons and ground crank,new brakes,new gas tank,gaslines,paint,tires,etc. When he went to get a title for it they refused to give him one because the serial number on the engine block and on the title was not a 1948 engine number.

 

No kidding. Unlike me,he can't afford to raise hell about that because he has a commercial garage that is a NC State Inspection Station,and he can't afford to piss off the DMV inspectors.

 

So basically,he's now stuck with it since the DMV destroyed his Virginia title because they deemed it to be fraudulent. He is a restorer and refuses to part it out.

 

And each state makes their own rules.and change them often depending on the political viewpoint of the political appointee that heads up that state DMV. Some want to register them to get the tax money,and some hate cars and want to see nothing but public transportation/electric cars,and will do everything they can to make it hard to register  a old one.

Edited by knuckleharley
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Late to the party but my 47 was titled with the body number in the door jamb.  My 49 is titled with the engine / frame number but if memory serves it makes a reference to the body number.  I have never gone through the process in CA but my father has many times and it wasn't difficult.  VIN verification was necessary and the car needs to out of the system for several years.  Much worse if the car is still in the system.

For once I think CA is one of the easier states to do this in.

 

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On 2017-12-31 at 11:46 AM, knuckleharley said:

 Does not apply to all cars. FoMoCo never had engine numbers,and I am sure they couldn't have been the only one.

 

Actually, Ford Motor Co. did have engine numbers.  Dated back to at least the first Model T engine. in 1908.  Models T numbers were stamped on the side of the block in the centre.  On flahead V8 engines stamped on rear of block on top of clutch housing.   Ford began stamping the engine number on the chassis frame after the Model A.  

 

Ford also used the car engines in their trucks, so the cars and trucks shared engine number sequences in the 1930's.  Car serial numbers separate from engine numbers began with the 1950 models.

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, B-Watson said:

 

Actually, Ford Motor Co. did have engine numbers.  Dated back to at least the first Model T engine. in 1908.  Models T numbers were stamped on the side of the block in the centre.  On flahead V8 engines stamped on rear of block on top of clutch housing.   Ford began stamping the engine number on the chassis frame after the Model A.  

 

Ford also used the car engines in their trucks, so the cars and trucks shared engine number sequences in the 1930's.  Car serial numbers separate from engine numbers began with the 1950 models.

 

 

 

I stand corrected. I even have two Model A engines here at  home that have serial numbers on them.

As for them being stamped on Ford flathead V-8's,this is news to me. I have several of them laying around in the yard and will have to check on this once the air temperature rises above freezing.

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Here is my experience:

 

In 2016, California passed a law stating the there must be two places on the car with the vehicle ID if it comes from out of state for the DMV employee to verify. If not, you must take the car to the California Highway Patrol and have the VIN verified by one of their VIN certified officers, of have a VIN assigned by them.

 

Then and only then will the California DMV issue a title. This is true even if you have the title from another state and it agrees with the VIN on the car.

 

Annoying but true, have been through this twice in the last year, and CHP is an hour and a half away from me.

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20 minutes ago, Rickricca said:

Here is my experience:

 

In 2016, California passed a law stating the there must be two places on the car with the vehicle ID if it comes from out of state for the DMV employee to verify. If not, you must take the car to the California Highway Patrol and have the VIN verified by one of their VIN certified officers, of have a VIN assigned by them.

 

Then and only then will the California DMV issue a title. This is true even if you have the title from another state and it agrees with the VIN on the car.

 

Annoying but true, have been through this twice in the last year, and CHP is an hour and a half away from me.

Sounds like NC may be more reasonable than Ca. At least here the DMV inspector comes to your house to inspect the car.

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Same for Georgia, as knuckleharley states the powers in charge are at this time a bit more friendly toward the owner by driving by your house to do the actual inspection.   The state form that is to be signed by the inspecting officer can be performed by any duly constituted Georgia LEO.  Of course, if you close enough and wish to deliver the vehicle to the local LEO office, it can be done on their turf.  This is for many cars with broken chains of 1987 and older and all cars 1962 and older as there were never any titles prior to 1963 in this state.  Again, any inquiry on how to is always best directed to the local DMV office that  will be doing the paperwork so to speak.  An attitude that only they can make it happen will work miracles in execution per some of the hard nose approaches I have seen in the past where they HAVE to do such and such...maybe they do but am sure thy don't like it in their face either.....being both persistent and nice works wonders...:P

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25 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:


Same for Georgia, as knuckleharley states the powers in charge are at this time a bit more friendly toward the owner by driving by your house to do the actual inspection.   The state form that is to be signed by the inspecting officer can be performed by any duly constituted Georgia LEO.  Of course, if you close enough and wish to deliver the vehicle to the local LEO office, it can be done on their turf.  This is for many cars with broken chains of 1987 and older and all cars 1962 and older as there were never any titles prior to 1963 in this state.  Again, any inquiry on how to is always best directed to the local DMV office that  will be doing the paperwork so to speak.  An attitude that only they can make it happen will work miracles in execution per some of the hard nose approaches I have seen in the past where they HAVE to do such and such...maybe they do but am sure thy don't like it in their face either.....being both persistent and nice works wonders...:P

It NEVER hurts to start out nice. You can always go to nasty if you have to,but if you start there going to nice just ain't possible. Yeah,some of these guys are little tinpot dictators with a pin,but others are just normal guys trying to do their job the best they can do it,and it makes no sense at all to insult and irritate one of them if you are lucky enough to have one show up to inspect your car. Once you go nasty,there ain't no going back.

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Just saw this thread and thought I would share my experience.  I'm in Delaware, so not apples to apples.  I bough the car from a fellow in PA, who bought from another fellow in TX.  The PA title I got with the car has the serial number on it (located inside the pass. door pillar), but my local DMV would not use it.  The car was not drive-able, so when it came time to get my Delaware U-Title, they sent out an employee (inspector, number looker-at-er, i dunno what his title was).  But he told me my new title would be using the engine ID and I was surprised, but said that's what DE did.  When I asked what to do if I ever replaced the motor, he said to just mount (rivet) a plate on the firewall with the old engine number.  Since the original engine was replaced and I'm not usually one to trust a state-workers word, I'm keeping the engine until after my U-title gets converted into a real title and gets it's tags and registration ... just in case!

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36 minutes ago, kridgleyud said:

 Since the original engine was replaced and I'm not usually one to trust a state-workers word, I'm keeping the engine until after my U-title gets converted into a real title and gets it's tags and registration ... just in case!

VERY smart move. If you can,you might even want to just keep it,period. They may change the law next year and void your title if you can't prove you had that engine in that car.

Hell,they might even decide to go with the serial numbers inside the door jamb.

Or even decide they want to issue their own VIN number,like I have with my 37 Dodge truck.

Remember,when dealing with politically appointed or even elected bureaucrats,no level of insanity is too high to be out of reach.

Edited by knuckleharley
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I've had no problems at all registering cars and motorcycles with a bill of sale and/or statement of facts. The DMV here doesn't use the engine number although it will be on the title. If you are missing the VIN or body number,  the CHP will issue you a blue sticker with a number they assign you. Last time I did this, I registered a kawi 2 stroke triple that sat since 83. Dude lost the title at some point.  DMV ran the VIN, inspected the bike, and for 95 bucks gave me plates and a title. Really not that difficult.  

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11 minutes ago, greg g said:

Mystery to me why states would title a vehicle based on a number from a replaceable part or parts assembly.  Especially when engineswaps were a basic maintainence procedure through the 80's or so. Hi I'm from the government, I'm here to help...

No mystery when you consider the head of each state DMV is a political appointee who usually doesn't know a Studebaker from a tea pot,or even care.

 

What puzzles me is why they make it so damn hard to get a title to bring a junker or abandoned car back to live on the road.  I have never heard of a politician that screams they want LESS money to buy more votes with,and if they ease up on their nonsense they could be pulling in property taxes on them.

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I purchased a car about 5 years ago in California where the only place the  VIN on the title existed was on the motor. I was able to register the car with the bill of sale and no inspection needed. 

I have since swapped the motor and not sure what to do? Should I throw the old block in the trunk and drive to the DMV to get the title adjusted to a different VIN? I was thinking of restamping the frame and making a new door tag to match the  VIN on the title and call it a day.  

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Update- I followed the suggestion made by DJ194950 and had a Vin verifier come out and confirm  engine number on the frame. 

I also retained his  services to see if he could get a title, registration and plates. The good news is that he was successful with Ca. DMV and I will be receiving plates and registration in just 4 days! From the time he came out to verify number to when I will get documents will be 1 week! I now can proceed with confidence that this 49  Suburban will see the road once again. 

Thanks for all the comments and advise!

 

 

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8 hours ago, Surfmerc said:

Update- I followed the suggestion made by DJ194950 and had a Vin verifier come out and confirm  engine number on the frame. 

I also retained his  services to see if he could get a title, registration and plates. The good news is that he was successful with Ca. DMV and I will be receiving plates and registration in just 4 days! From the time he came out to verify number to when I will get documents will be 1 week! I now can proceed with confidence that this 49  Suburban will see the road once again. 

Thanks for all the comments and advise!

 

 

I have no idea how much he charged you,but it seems to have been money well-spent.

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