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help me please!!


Don Jordan

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I know I've been on before asking silly questions and receiving intelligent answers.  This time I've reached the end of the line.  Problem: it will not fire.  It's a brand new rebuilt 48 p 15 - 218.  I put it in and was so excited to get it on the road again.  Nothing but problems.  before you tell - me so far I've done the following:  Put everything back together.  No spark.  Traced it to the distributer.  Switched out dist.  Got spark to #1.  The old 6v battery was turning it over really slow.  I know this is not a good idea but I put an 8v jumper on it.  It cranked over - fast - and started.  The throttle linkage was stuck open and it was revving too hot.  Had to shut it off.  Could not get it started again.  Spark through the coil, dist, to the plugs.  It should run.  A friend came over and questioned the timing.  I got the #1 piston to TDC and the rotor was around 7:00 on the way to 9.  It would not pop, backfire, nothing.  He suggested I move the plug wires up one.  15 3 6 2 4.  It's seared in my brain.  It still turns slow.  I know the engine is new and tight but there should still be some electrical activity.  It was suggested I try an 8v battery - any comments?

I don't know what to do.  I've got so much time and money invested and it gives me grief.  Now I know why they call them "she".  Any help would be appreciated.  It's starting to get cold out.

thanks,

d-

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What's the size and condition of your battery cables? Was your starter checked/rebuilt along with the engine? What is the charge status of the 6v battery? If all of that is good you shouldn't need an 8 volt battery. Those are band-aid fixes for people too lazy to properly fix an electrical system. (my opinion)

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I find it very interesting that you got a engine rebuilt, I am sure you had this done by a shop...it fired, ran wide open due to you incorrectly connecting the accelerator linkage....shut it down...then did not start so you decided to move the wiring about the distributor on an engine that was running and in no manner could have altered the wiring of the cap on its own.....question is, do you still have spark?

 

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Pull the plugs, do a compression test.  With the plugs out Do a basic static timing procedure.  Assure #1 is tdc on compression stroke not exhaust. Assure the rotor is pointing at #1 the assure the rest of the wires are in the proper position in the cap for the correct firing order.  With the cap off assure you have spark at the points with ignition on. Button the dist up with the rotor in and properly seated.  Disconnect the coil wire from the dist and place it near ground, assure you have spark going to the dist.  Reattach coilwire to dist.  Put spark plug leads near ground and check for spark to the plugs. Reattach plug wires.  Assure throttle will return to idle position when released.  Try start procedure with freshly charged battery or new proper 6 v.

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Since the engine was rebuilt you need to do a quick check of the components that are interconnected. Set it up for TDC on number 1. Pull the front valve cover and verify both valves are closed and if you keep turning the exhaust valve opens. You can verify the cam is installed correctly by verifying these numbers: Intake opens 12 degrees before TDC, Exhaust closes 6 degrees after TDC, Exhaust opens 50 degrees before BDC and Intake closes 44 degrees after BDC. You use the marks on the crankshaft pulley.  I think if two of those specs are ok you should be good to go.

Go back to TDC and verify the distributor rotor is pointing to 7 o'clock. If all is ok follow the static timing instructions in this article: http://p15-d24.com/page/p15d24/tech/tech_tips.html/

When you have it set for TDC you should be able to just turn the distributor back and forth to get #1 to fire. Pull the plug and see if it fires. If it doesn't then start working backwards through the ignition system: plug, plug wires, cap, rotor, points, cap, ground wire in distributor, coil, supply voltage to the distributor and coil. It's not that complex, just need a methodology to troubleshoot. 

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I had an experience similar to what you describe. On starting, the throttle spring broke and once started the engine went to full race so we quickly turned it off. After replacing the spring, no start. It turned over and over but wouldn't even attempt to start. A mechanic friend told me that when the engine raced up high like that, the sudden burst of fuel washed a good deal of the oil off of the cylinder walls and lowered the compression enough so it wouldn't start. A few squirts of oil in each plug hole and after replacing the plugs, it started and ran fine, smoked like hell for a bit but was okay afterwards. I realize that your engine is freshly rebuilt and I'm sure the compression is better than my old engine but I thought I would offer this experience in hopes that it could be helpful. Whatever happens, I hope you get started soon.

John R

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You need to provide more info. As someone else asked, do you still have spark to the plugs?  Did you change timing any since the problem, or just checked it?  Make sure the firing order and wires are correct before anything else if you changed it.  Then start with the simple stuff.   Check your throttle plate again...if it stuck one time it could stick again..the engine might not want to crank at full throttle. Have you got gas in the tank and is it fairly new? If it smells sour (funny) then it's too old.  Spark to the plugs at the right time, fuel, air going in and pistons at the right time is all you need. Don't think a rebuilt engine would slip the timing chain ...how long did it run at full throttle? Did it run smooth while it was running?

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Okay - for all that participated in my dilemma I would like to thank you for offering your insights.  I tried many of your suggestions.  I don't really know what was wrong or how I fixed it.  The bottom line is I swapped out the dist. and turned it 180°  It purrs like a sewing machine.

I probably need a new battery because it still turns over too slowly - but at least it runs.

thanks again - now I'm going to wash and wax it

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New rebuilt engines are usually tight and somewhat tough to start the first time. I know when I have done a few piston and ring jobs that has been the case. It has been told to me several times down through the decades, that upon that first start to run the engine at a higher R.P.M. for about 15 to 20 minutes to allow for the initial rings to seat/set themselves. In this manner the engine will then be able to start smoother upon subsequent re-starts. After a few gentle rides (break in period) all will be corrected in such a manner that it will start smoothly each time. I typically find resetting the Timing, and also using a vacumm Gauge to reset the carb is quite useful at this time as well.

Tom

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9 hours ago, greg g said:

Breath Don, just breath.  Did you have the distributor tightened down when you did your first start?  Wonder if the high revs popped the dist out enough to in seat then reseat the drive tang out of position.

Been there, done that! :-O

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4 hours ago, Tom Skinner said:

....New rebuilt engines are usually tight and somewhat tough to start the first time.

Tom

I know some will say this is not the right way to rebuild an engine, but this was how it was done at the Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge-DeSoto dealership where my dad worked (parts man at the service desk) starting in the middle 50's up into the early 60's or so before he moved to Rambler.  They were so tight after a rebuild that the starter couldn't turn them over.  They would hook onto the car with a chain a drag it around the block a few times till it started the first time.  (This was right in downtown Tulsa.  The dealership name was FourStates.)

Edited by Eneto-55
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