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1947 Chrysler modern rim substitutions?


ebruns1

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Hey Fellas

I just got a 47 club coupe that came with crappy modern 14" roller rims.  Does anyone know of a newer 15" rim swap that will fit on the original hubs with the alignment pins?  I bought a 15"x6 1985 Ford Ranger rim that has the alignment pin holes (not sure why) but it does not seat fully on the hub.  I tried drilling out the pin hole in case it was slightly smaller, but that did not help.  I checked for clearance with the steering ball joints and it was close but it seemed to clear.  Can't figure why it rocks against the hub but I noticed some raised nubs between the bolt holes so maybe they are not the same size?  I'd love for any suggestions on what has worked for anyone else.  Why not use original rims you ask?  They are hard to find in good shape, not made for radial tires, and I'd like something a slightly wider.  I think I read original rims were 5" wide but I may be wrong.  I was hoping there would be a junkyard rim off a late 80's or 90's rim about 6" that would be an inexpensive possibility.  Any suggestions greatly appreciated!

JT

 

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Look for wheels from a 50's or newer Ford,Jeep,or Dodge pu.

Don't worry about not having holes for the locator pins. You can drill them.

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   The reason for the “rocking” is that the center hole, called the register, is smaller on Ford wheels than it is on Chrysler wheels. The result—Ford wheels won’t completely seat on Chryslers, but Chrysler wheels will seat on Fords (the lug nuts provide the “register” of the wheel.

Edited by DrDoctor
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3 hours ago, DrDoctor said:

   The reason for the “rocking” is that the center hole, called the register, is smaller on Chrysler wheels than it is on Ford wheels. The result—Ford wheels won’t completely seat on Chryslers, but Chrysler wheels will seat on Fords (the lug nuts provide the “register” of the wheel.

you are backward....it is the Ford wheels rocking on the Mopar hubs....there is about 2mm difference with  Ford the smaller...

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33 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

you are backward....it is the Ford wheels rocking on the Mopar hubs....there is about 2mm difference with  Ford the smaller...

I'm not so sure that is true if you use wheels from a half-ton pu. Or at least not true with all Mopars and/or all year Ford wheels. When I went to pick up the 55 DeSoto I bought in Georgia,the damn thing was sitting flat on the ground. Somebody had stolen the wheels and tires.  The guy that owned the car was in the NG and had been called up and was in the Muddle East somewhere. His house was vacant,and I had to call his mother and have her come over to pay for the car.

I went to a junkyard and bought 4 wheels and tires already off the vehicle that I THINK were Ford PU wheels,and all I had to do to bolt them on the DeSoto was to drill a hole between the lug nut holes in each wheel.  It would have been easier to just take a hammer and knock the pins off the hubs,but I didn't want to do that.

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Great information guys! 

So 2mm is causing the headache!  What if I drilled out the center register hole to make it fit?  2mm is not that much so I don't think it would compromise the integrity of the rim, would it?

No one has answered the other question I had...what was the original width of the 15" Chrysler rims?  5" 5.5" or 6"?  I"m getting conflicting info on the interwebs.  I was thinking about running some 225/75/15's on the Ford rims which seems pretty close to the original diameter, although I could run 215/75/15's if there is a clearance issue.

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you have three problems when just cutting the opening...one is staying centric so to fit snug and not cause you out of round wheel to hub, second if you went too large then the wheels are now bolt centric and place more strain on the bolts than hub centric alignment does.  Lastly and of grave importance is that if you are  now not centric in the hub opening, alignment on a balancer of any style OFF THE CAR will cause balancing issues....you basically stuck with on car balancing.

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54 minutes ago, ebruns1 said:

 

No one has answered the other question I had...what was the original width of the 15" Chrysler rims?  5" 5.5" or 6"?  I"m getting conflicting info on the interwebs.  I was thinking about running some 225/75/15's on the Ford rims which seems pretty close to the original diameter, although I could run 215/75/15's if there is a clearance issue.

You are getting conflicting information as to wheel widths because different wheel width wheels were used in different Mopar cars,and sometimes even on the same Mopar cars during different years. 5 inch wheels are ok for lighter cars with narrow tires like 5.60 or 6.70 x 15 ,but IMHO you are better off with 6 or 6.5 inch wheels to wear tires the size you mention. I just bought new narrow whitewall 215/75/15 inch radial tires ($61 ea w/free shipping on amazon)  on 6 inch wheels on a "other brand" 1951 car,and while they are larger than the tires that originally came on the car,they aren't so wide that turning the steering wheel at stop will be that big a deal. IIRC,which might be the first time this year,215/75 are the equivalent of 7.75 or 8.00 using the original numbering method for tires. We used to run 9:15's x 15 on the rear of these old cars back when I was a kid,and they seemed to clear the rear fenders with no problems. I never knew anybody that put them on the front,so I can't speak for that.

Basically,these are almost all cars we are talking about on this board are in the "3,000 lb bracket",so 205's or 215's are plenty wide for ride comfort and safety.

Edited by knuckleharley
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on the wheels diameter verse tire, first off the width of the tire by manufactures specs will state the smallest and larger width rim you can safely mount these and expect the tire to perform and wear as suggested by the maker.  On modern wheels there is the issue of backset or offset depending on how you wish to measure the rim.  Both are the same in the positioning the wheel in relationship flange to wheel.  Later models are more positive offset than the wheels of our generation cars here on this forum as they are neutral or zero offset.  You can adjust offset with your choice of later wheels by use of spacers up to x year and later more positive offsets will require spacer style adapter where the pattern is the same but allow for setting the offset wheel in a more zero offset position for you vehicle.  Now in doing this you have to take in consideration that the wider you go with the rim the wider the tire will be at the bulge and you will have to watch your clearance issues both inside at the leaf spring at rear and tie rod at the front and inner fender and fender lip opening at front for max steering and fender scrub if squatting during a hard corner or heavy load..

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Then there are after market choices.  I am running wheel vintique style 20 smoothies. Mine are 15 x 5 with a 3.5 inch back space.  They are drilled for Mopar/Ford and GM bolt patterns.  One of the gm holes allows the locating pin to be retained.  They don't have clips for the stock hubcaps so I run baby moons and trim rings. The good thing is they are new so no worries about bent rims rust or metal fatigue or cracks from being over torqued.

I am running 225 75 15 on the rear and 205 75 15 on the fronts.  The 225's said minimum 5.5 inch wide rim but going on 30,000 miles with no issues.  I had a bit of rear fender rub on sharp turns but new spring and shackle bushings, and rear shocks took care of that.

 

IMG_20170516_153957_154.jpg

Edited by greg g
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Here is a tip to those of you looking for replacement steel wheels. Summit Racing sells brand new 15 inch 5 x 4.5 x 6  Dorman brand steel wheels painted gloss black and ready to go for $41 bucks each. They have holes maybe a inch in diameter all around the radius of the face and they don't have the "bumps" for the dog dish hubcaps,but you just can't beat that price. I am in the process of sandblasting and painting 4 original steel wheels for my 51,and it's going to cost me more than 41 bucks each to do them myself.

I WAS going to paint them with Dupont Epoxy primer and paint in rattle cans until I found out they cost 31 bucks a can,before taxes. I bought 4 cans of off-grand mixed primer and finish in each can for $7.89 a can instead,and then bought another 3 cans of black gloss epoxy paint of the same brand for another $7.89 per can at Advance Auto instead.

Then I had to drive to town to buy bags of sand for my pressure pot.

Yeah,my wheels ARE going to be glossy black factory wheels,but I  am not restoring this car for show points and for the saving in labor,time,and material,I would have damn sure had holes in the wheels on my 51 if I had know about these wheels before I bought all that stuff.

Edited by knuckleharley
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knuckle and greg g,

Great tips, that is exactly the info I was looking for!  I plan on using a set of the 1949(?) 15" full wheel covers that I bought on Epay...so what's underneath does not matter one iota.  That was another reason I forgot to mention as to why I wanted to go with all new rims.  Knuckle, that $41 dollar rim sounds like a great deal!  What was the backspacing you asked for, or was there only one choice for that rim?  I think I will go ahead and order a set of those...can't beat the price!

PS - will keep everything else pretty much original but mine is far from a show car.  I'm just hoping to bring this one back from the dead...

I think I found it...so this center bore will fit my 47 Chrysler wheel hub without rocking?  It doesn't mention if made for MOPAR or not.  It also looks like I will have to drill my own alignment holes in these.

Brand:Dorman

Manufacturer's Part Number:939-178

Part Type:Wheels

Product Line:Dorman OE Replacement Wheels

Summit Racing Part Number:RNB-939-178
 

UPC:019495537359

Wheel Bolt Pattern:5 x 114.3mm

5 x 4 1/2 in.

Wheel Diameter:15 in.

Wheel Width (in):6.000 in.

Wheel Material:Steel

TPMS Sensor Compatible:Yes

TPMS Sensor Mounting Style:Valve stem mount

Primary Wheel Color:Black

Wheel Finish:Gloss

Offset:+41.00mm

Wheel Construction:2-piece

Beadlock Included:No

Beadlock Functional:No

Lug Nut Seat Style:Conical seat - 60 degree

Center Bore Diameter (in):2.820 in.

Center Bore Diameter (mm):71.60mm

Center Cap Included:Yes

 

Edited by ebruns1
more info
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1 hour ago, ebruns1 said:

knuckle and greg g,

 Knuckle, that $41 dollar rim sounds like a great deal!  What was the backspacing you asked for, or was there only one choice for that rim?  I think I will go ahead and order a set of those...can't beat the price!

PS - will keep everything else pretty much original but mine is far from a show car.  I'm just hoping to bring this one back from the dead...

JT

Maybe bad news on those rims. I called Summit Racing to order 4 for my 51,and the guy I talked to seemed to think,but wasn't sure,that they were for front wheel drive cars,and the offset would be too much for a old car.  You might want to call or email Dorman  to see if they have any stock replacement wheels that will work.

I did find Vintique wheels for prices ranging from 61 to 84 bucks that were direct factory repo's of the non-Mopar wheels I want. They 61 dollar ones are "Smoothies" that only accept full-wheel hubcaps or the hubcaps with a lip that fit inside the recess. The 84 buck wheels have the stock factory "bumps" on them so you can run poverty hubcaps or baby moons.

The also sell repop Mopar wheels from the 60's to the 80's for both regular passenger cars as well as cop cars. They are powder coated a gloss black.

Coker also sells repop steel wheel,but his are 105 bucks. His are powder coated with a gloss black. The cheaper wheels above are primed with epoxy paint in gray.

Since I already bought the paint and the sand for my sandblaster to blast and paint the old wheels,I'm going to go that route. I'd definitely buy a set of 4 that are new and powder coated for 84 bucks each before I would spend all that money on epoxy paint,sand,and spend all the time necessary to blast and paint the old ones,though. Hoping to blast and prime them with epoxy primer tomorrow,and then topcoat them on Tuesday.

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7 hours ago, 40plyguy said:

God! That's a nice looking car and it sits just right. Did you lower the suspension at all or use stock rated springs?

Thanks!  It has the springs it was born with to the best of my knowledge.  I got it from the original owner in 1970. So it was a nearly new 24 year old and pretty much unmessed with.

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I got my WV smoothies unpainted bare steel through Summit.  It was 12 years ago and I believe 

I got them for $37.00ea.  Can't remember if the were on clearance or not, but after media blasting three of my stockers and being able to read the newspaper through them the Smoothies were to good a deal to pass up.

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The maximum factory wheel width on the C38  Chrysler Windsor was 5.50".

With too wide of wheel and wrong off set the tires will rub hard on the frame and rear inner wheel housing.

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26 minutes ago, Don Coatney said:

I got my chrome smoothies for about fifty bucks each form Summit too several years back. I am very happy with them. Wheelvintiques in Fresno makes them.

IMG00145-20100913-20011.jpg

Thanks,Don.

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I was thinking I've seen Dodge Diplomat cop car wheels on 40's and 50's Mopars.  Maybe there was a change of some kind that allowed them to run those wheels. I always liked the look of them with the small hub cap on the old cars. But even if they work, probably not very easy to find.

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Oh, also VHT makes a self priming epoxy paint in a spray can that I really like. It's like 7 or 8 bucks a can but you save money in that it doesn't necessarily need a primed surface. But as you know if a surface is pitted or has imperfections you might want to prime it as a filler. I've painted some engine acessorys and painted a transmission with it. Its tough stuff and it also will withstand heat to 250 degrees.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Flatie46 said:

I was thinking I've seen Dodge Diplomat cop car wheels on 40's and 50's Mopars.  Maybe there was a change of some kind that allowed them to run those wheels. I always liked the look of them with the small hub cap on the old cars. But even if they work, probably not very easy to find.

True,but by the time you find and buy  them,pay someone to take off the old cars,sandblast them,and then paint them, it might have been cheaper to have gone ahead and bought new powder-coated ones you KNOW aren't bent to start with.

There is no question it would be quicker.

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I have 15×5 wheel vintiques rally wheels.  2.5" backspace. The hubcap is fastened to an OEM rally wheel cap cut down and modified to hold it. I don't advise going that route for hubcap mounting but no issues with clearance or fitment and clears disc brakes. Rim also fits on ford 8.8 axle with discs and clears calipers. I ordered a set of U.S. wheel series 68 smoothies but they haven't arrived yet. 

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