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How to tell if your head has been messed with


greg g

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Is your head right? Other than the drooling, inability to grasp simple concepts, and chronic irritability during the fuel moon, how do I know if my head is standard?  Or how much can I mill my head if I don't know its history?  Here is a rule of thumb from a knowledgeable Mopar flathead person.  Unmolested heads measure 2 inches thick when measured from the flat spot where the head bolt sits to the block to head mating surface excluding the head gasket.  So I just measured mine.  On my 218 which I believe to be unmodified with the exception of a truing cut measured 1.956 inch. Or .044 short of stock.  My milled head on my 56 engine measures 1.939. I had asked for a .050 cut which should be 1.950, so it seems that one had a slight leveling cut also. 

So measure twice cut once!  Good luck.

Edited by greg g
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Wonder how well uniformity was in quailty control at the foundary of Ma Mopar...

1 big issue with cutting an L head is the disruption to flow.

Another is will the valves be rising up too much.

There is fine line of just right and too much of a good thing.

Now what was the major difference besides the obvious compression increase  in the late 230 head was it a completely different animal than a 1940s 230?

Edited by 55 Fargo Spitfire
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1 hour ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Now what was the major difference besides the obvious compression increase  in the late 230 head was it a completely different animal than a 1940s 230?

EXCELLENT question,and one I would also like to see answered.

 

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2 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

 

Maybe we can ge t some folks with disassembled engines or parts heads laying about to take some pics and measurements and post them up.  I know that my Edmund's head was flat across the top of the piston area and the stock head had a lot of space above the piston.  But as to the actual cc difference who knows.  It has often been suggested that ASN early 218 head on a late 230 was the way to go if not milling.

 

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54 minutes ago, greg g said:

Maybe we can ge t some folks with disassembled engines or parts heads laying about to take some pics and measurements and post them up.  I know that my Edmund's head was flat across the top of the piston area and the stock head had a lot of space above the piston.  But as to the actual cc difference who knows.  It has often been suggested that ASN early 218 head on a late 230 was the way to go if not milling.

 

There may be a problem even finding a head that hasn't been milled these days. The last head I had milled was off of a 39 IHC 6 cylinder pu,and it was so warped that oil was leaking out from under the head and running down both sides of the block. Seriously. The damn thing still ran good,but would lose a quart of oil ever 30-40 miles. The machine shop had to remove .125 as the minimum amount to make it flat.

The good news was it had an AMAZING amount of power once it was back together. I drove it almost a whole mile before the radiator blew out. Now I have to come up with 700-800 bucks for a new radiator core before I can drive it again,providing I can even find someone that has one.

It sure was nice while it lasted,though. Had so much pickup it was like driving a late 60's OHV 6 cylinder pu. It always ran smooth at 55-60 mph before,but it took forever to get going that fast.

I still have a hard time believing it wasn't missing with the head that warped.

Bought it off a forklift dealer in ND that only used it to haul scrap steel from his dealership to the junkyard. He told he would just park it outside his building and keep thrown steel in the bed until it was full,and then drive off in it. It was and is painted baby blue with housepaint and a roller,and damned if it doesn't draw more attention when I park it someplace that anything else I've been driving lately. Every time I park it somewhere while I am in a store,there are people taking photos of it with their cell phones when I walk back outside the store. I think the swing out windshield is probably responsible for most of that. Most people today have never seen one.

I can only imagine the looks my 31 Plymouth coupe is going to get when I put it back on the road this spring.

Edited by knuckleharley
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7 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

There may be a problem even finding a head that hasn't been milled these days.

Thats what I was thinking, I have 4 218 engines, the only one with the head off is to show the engine was rebuilt and 0 miles on it, no idea if anything done to the head.

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6 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Thats what I was thinking, I have 4 218 engines, the only one with the head off is to show the engine was rebuilt and 0 miles on it, no idea if anything done to the head.

If you can find someone that knows the combustion chamber volume of the various Mopar 6's,you can pour ATF in them and measure the volume it takes to fill them.

Other than that,I don't have a clue. There has been so much changed on pretty much all old cars since they were new that it's hard to even find one with the same engine it left the factory with. When they became 300 dollar clunkers on the back row of used car dealerships,all sorts of "creative" stuff had been done to them by previous owners to keep them on the road.

I once saw a photo of a early 50's Plymouth in Cuba that had a tiny little 4 cylinder diesel in it from some tiny little eastern European car. Poor people did and do whatever they have to do to keep them running.

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l just got a radiator for my studebaker from Champion Cooling in California.  Just over 200 bucks.  Their online catalog lists several K and KB series available.  But take your rads measurements including ooutside diameter of the hose connections and their locations and where the drain bib is and give them a call.

https://www.championcooling.com

 

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16 minutes ago, greg g said:

l just got a radiator for my studebaker from Champion Cooling in California.  Just over 200 bucks.  Their online catalog lists several K and KB series available.  But take your rads measurements including ooutside diameter of the hose connections and their locations and where the drain bib is and give them a call.

https://www.championcooling.com

 

Thanks,but my truck is a D series,only made from 37-40 (or maybe 39),and has a radiator more like a 37 Ford than a traditional radiator.

I just might call Champion and ask them how much they would charge me to make one,though.

Anybody know how to securely mate an aluminum core to copper/brass tanks?

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I bought a radiator from Champion (cc4749) off of eBay . It is for a 47-49 Plymouth but it has the correct dimensions to fit my '53 half ton. Seems to work fine, no temp problems was right at $200. I did have to cut off the downward angled piece on the top fitting and fab some new mounts. Here is a link to look through their specs. Good luck! http://www.championradiators.com/Champion-Radiators

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19 minutes ago, The Oil Soup said:

I bought a radiator from Champion (cc4749) off of eBay . It is for a 47-49 Plymouth but it has the correct dimensions to fit my '53 half ton. Seems to work fine, no temp problems was right at $200. I did have to cut off the downward angled piece on the top fitting and fab some new mounts. Here is a link to look through their specs. Good luck! http://www.championradiators.com/Champion-Radiators

Thanks! I have already sent Champion a email asking them if they make a radiator that fit my year and model truck,and expect to hear back from them some time today. Finding a 200 dollar radiator for it instead of having to pay 700+ would be a real Christmas present to me. I miss driving that old beater.

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9 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

Thanks,but my truck is a D series,only made from 37-40 (or maybe 39),and has a radiator more like a 37 Ford than a traditional radiator.

I just might call Champion and ask them how much they would charge me to make one,though.

Anybody know how to securely mate an aluminum core to copper/brass tanks?

I wouldn't consider doing that.... that particular combination of dissimilar metals would be asking for trouble.

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1 hour ago, T120 said:

I wouldn't consider doing that.... that particular combination of dissimilar metals would be asking for trouble.

Be better off with a composite glued to brass than aluminum soldered to it..

 

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5 hours ago, T120 said:

I wouldn't consider doing that.... that particular combination of dissimilar metals would be asking for trouble.

That was my guess too,but I don't do this stuff for a living. Besides,who would even want  brittle old brass/copper brass tanks if they can buy brand new aluminum ones cheaper?

Other than a restorer,that is.  I have no intention of restoring the D-2. My goal is to preserve and drive it.

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