alsfarms Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 I am new to Chrysler products and do not know much about the differences and interchange possibilities between the 23" and 25" blocks. I have a later series IND 265 that I am planning to rework and install into a 1937 DeSoto coupe. The IND 265 is a 12 volt motor. What are my best options to locate and source the correct flywheel and bell housing parts to fit and allow installation of a manual transmission. Probably the original 3 speed but I have also considered installing an Astro T-5. Any help, references and guidance is greatly appreciated. One more thought, would it be easier to go back to 6 volt parts? Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpollo Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 The engine does not care what the voltage is. It should fit your bell housing perfectly. The flywheel likely has 4 bolts in your Desoto but it will fit on the 8 hole crankshaft. An eight hole flywheel would be better but there is a difference in the ring gear tooth count in 1957 and later. One item to check is the distance the ring gear is from the starter's mounting flange. In your case this should be OK but it can be a problem with the 3 1/4 bore 218 and other engine sizes including the 230. Incidentally, you cannot use a 57 or later flywheel in an earlier bell housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 Hello Dpollo, I thought the 12 volt starters were in a different position relative to the ring gear. Will the bell housing from my 23" DeSoto fit the Chrysler 25" block? Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsartain Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 There are 6 volt starters to fit your engine. You will also have to change the coil to a 6 volt coil to get the best spark. The 265 is about 2 inches longer than the 218. Measure to make sure you have the clearance needed to install the motor. I know in my truck with a 218 there is about 1/2 " between the fan and the radiator. There is some adjustment on the radiator support where I may get an inch or so. the radiator could be mounted differently as well. Do you research and have a plan before you begin. There are two flywheels that i know of, a 146 tooth and a 172 tooth. I ran into an issue here as a previous owner who had disassembled much of the truck has a 172 tooth mounted to my engine. The truck requires a 146 tooth to match the bellhousing and starter. I didn't find this out until I had bought a new starter, I originally thought it was the wrong bendix on the starter. I got lucky as I found I already had another flywheel that had the correct teeth. Another Issue I had with 6 volt is that I got stuck when my generator wasn't working. Getting jumped is risky with a 6 volt system when everyone else is 12 volt. I had a jumper box with a switch I could turn on just long enough to jump and switch it back off. Just don't hold the brake while you have the 12 volt hooked up or you will be replacing bulbs. If you decide to jump off from another vehicle, make sure that they don't touch as your car is likely positive ground and the new er vehicles are negative ground. Touching metal bumpers results in a direct short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpollo Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 8 hours ago, alsfarms said: Hello Dpollo, I thought the 12 volt starters were in a different position relative to the ring gear. Will the bell housing from my 23" DeSoto fit the Chrysler 25" block? Al Some starters were moved around the ring gear ( to gain clearance for steering and gearshift) but held the same relative position to the gear itself. 57 and up used a smaller starter pinion and more ring gear teeth so were closer to the crankshaft center line. 56 therefore is the only 12 volt starter which is fully compatible with earlier engines. 6 volt starters run on 12 volts rarely cause any problems. I am surprised to learn your Desoto has a 23 inch engine. However, the bell housing should fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 Hello, My DeSoto does not have the 265 engine. It has the original engine which is a 230. I am wanting to update and use the 265, if I can figure it all out. I think I can move the rad. forward enough. I just need to locate the proper bell housing and flywheel. From what you mentioned, I am OK with locating the more available 6 cylinder pieces. Do you happen to have any loose bell housings? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 1 hour ago, alsfarms said: Hello, My DeSoto does not have the 265 engine. It has the original engine which is a 230. I am wanting to update and use the 265, if I can figure it all out. I think I can move the rad. forward enough. I just need to locate the proper bell housing and flywheel. From what you mentioned, I am OK with locating the more available 6 cylinder pieces. Do you happen to have any loose bell housings? Alan I do not believe any Desoto ever had a 265 or a 230 engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 My mistake, the DeSoto does in fact use the 228 (23" block) engine. Does the 23" engine use its own bell housing or does it share with the 25" engine? Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 the rear killer on the Desoto is the very short stroke compared to the other flathead 6's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 hmmm, that is why I am looking at going with a 265 in place of the 228. Do you have any spare pieces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 no.......my engines of choice are bent in the middle...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 darn V-8's........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 36 minutes ago, alsfarms said: darn V-8's........ darn boat anchor flatheads.......lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49D-24BusCpe Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 'Als, My 265" (25 in.) industrial engine uses exactly the same P-15 bell housing as my 230" (23 in.) engine. The key is to use 146 tooth flywheels! I, initially, did my T-5 conversion while my car was still 6-volt. After going to 12-volt, the driveline set-up continues to work perfectly. Since you're already familiar with some T-5 swaps, look at www.1935plymouth.com. In particular, check out the 'T5 Overdrive Adapter' and 'A T5 Overdrive in my 1935 Plymouth' sections. Once, you've got a basic 'handle on your swap's direction, we'll walk you through the readily available flywheels you'll be looking for! Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49D-24BusCpe Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 I screwed up! the site you want (minus the trailing period) is www.1935plymouth.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 That is an interesting read about the 1935 Plymouth conversion. Do you know how similar or not doing the same thing to a 1934 would be? I think I have an abundance of Camaro, S-10 and Astro T-5's so I would choose to use one of them for a conversion. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Walt, I meant to ask, did you do a 265 engine swap into the 1935 Plymouth? Secondly, would you share the casting numbers from the bell housing you have installed on your 265? I may have a lead on a bell housing and flywheel for my IND 265. Also, did you IND 265 have the aux. oil pump driven from the front gear chest of the engine? Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpollo Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 5 hours ago, alsfarms said: My mistake, the DeSoto does in fact use the 228 (23" block) engine. Does the 23" engine use its own bell housing or does it share with the 25" engine? Al Sorry to rain on your parade, but the 228 is 3 3/8 by 4 1/4 and is a block with a 25 inch head. This is the engine which powered the 37 Desoto and was later used in the larger Dodge in Canada and was last found under the hood of the Canadian 55 Plymouth The 230 had many applications but had a 3 1/4 bore and the cylinder head measured 23 inches. Bellhousings will interchange but be careful with ring gear and starter as mentioned in earlier posts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 I am learning for sure..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Seems there are way to many threads on this same issue. Perhaps a moderator can combine them so all the responses can be found in one thread. http://p15-d24.com/profile/10522-alsfarms/content/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49D-24BusCpe Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 4 hours ago, alsfarms said: Walt, I meant to ask, did you do a 265 engine swap into the 1935 Plymouth? Secondly, would you share the casting numbers from the bell housing you have installed on your 265? I may have a lead on a bell housing and flywheel for my IND 265. Also, did you IND 265 have the aux. oil pump driven from the front gear chest of the engine? Al Al, My T-5 swap was into a '49 D-24 Business Coupe, which originally had a Fluid-Drive. I eliminated that set-up by using an 871357 bell housing, which is used in many '46 - '54 passenger car manual transmission vehicles. The part number goes back earlier than '46, but I don't have that information. My 265" engine is a U.S. Navy IND-32 clone. Your engine, with it's front gear package, sounds like it's equivalent to an IND-33! As far as flywheel concerns, you can use a lot of different 4-bolt and 8-bolt 'wheels, although I would highly recommend sticking with the 8-bolt units. Once again, stay with the 146 tooth ring gear assemblies! Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Walt, Thanks for sharing information regarding your 265 swap and conversion. The bell housing number will at least give me a target for something that works. What was your 265 originally used in or on? Did you mess with the cam much? How about the head and compression? On the 4 versus 8 hole flywheel, other than the hole count are the flywheels structurally the same? In other words, is it possible to re-drill a 4 hole to make it an 8 hole? I have not been into my 265 yet, but I am supposing that the engine is a 7 main engine? Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49D-24BusCpe Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Al, The 265" engines have four main bearings. If the engine has an industrial background, you'll want to change or regrind the cam, as they're typically set-up for lower speed operation than a passenger car or truck. My brand new engine was a U.S. Navy JG-75 airplane tug QEC (Quick Engine Change) power plant. More to come on that in the very near future! Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Walt, My engine was originally a work horse engine in a large fork lift. I do not have the engine in hand yet as it is being shipped to me at this time. Please see a picture of it. What is the lower belt driving that is located just under the alternator? Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49D-24BusCpe Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Al, It's probably a belt-driven hydraulic accessory pump for any number of fork lift functions, like 'lift', 'tilt', 'shift' or power steering etc. etc. Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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