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39 Side Mirrors?


Dennis Detweiler

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Hey Dennis, I have a 39 P8 as well. I have not heard of the 39's with an optional side view mirror from the factory so I can't say if they do or don't. But I do plan on putting them on mine. Put side view mirrors in the search box and you will come up with a lot of information if you want to put them on your car.

Heres a link to one conversation, while back but I thought HughForrest had an interesting idea using VW mirrors mounted on modified hinge pins.

If you come up with anything please post it. I for one would be interested.

Lloyd

Edited by Lloyd
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I think you will find that the swan neck mirror being the most practical and overall the best bang for the buck...do not confuse these with the wing mount smaller neck Lucas mirrors that DO NOT have a position locking second screw....scan down the following e-bay listing for variety of prices etc....

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=sirus+xm+radio&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xswan+neck+mirror.TRS0&_nkw=swan+neck+mirror&_sacat=0

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Thanks Tim. Those mirrors are an option and probably the best bet. Reading some back posts it seemed like a lot of comments were about the passenger side mirror being pretty much useless from the drivers seat. Dont know what kind of mirror that was but do you know if these swan neck type mirrors can be viewed OK from the drivers seat?

 

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they can be set up to be effective....suggest a good second set of hands while you are positioned behind the wheel in your normal driving stance...as in...drive down the road and come to a stop all the while not shifting your seating position/posture for your helper to carefully position the mirror for your best rearward view...place a bit of masking tape on the door in the general vicinity and arm that helper with a magic marker for a quick outline of the base..do have your vent opened and when marked, have your helper verify that the vent will close when base is mounted without obstruction.  The swan necks take a lot of tradeoff out of play.....balance in positioning left and right with the primary drivers mirror having priority,...

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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Jay Fisher,  in NJ, 732 388-6442 has original style door hinge pin rear view mirrors for the '39 Plymn's, very pricey, last I heard about $450. a pair.

I used the aftermarket "Swan" style of mirrors on my '39 Plym conv coupe, they look look like original equipment. The right had mirror is basically useless, however, I glue a 3.5" "fish-eye" mirror on top of the mirror, gives me great field of view and most people don't notice the mirror overlay.

39 Plym conv.7-14-2.jpg

39 Plym conv.7-14-3.jpg

Edited by blucarsdn
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Hi all,

Jay Fisher passed away a year or two ago. He was a founding member of the Plymouth Owners Club. I would love to have a pair of his hinge post mirrors. A friend of mine has them on his '36 Plymouth. They are gorgeous and are placed to work very well on both sides. I spoke to Jay's widow who said someone bought his business. If they are still making the mirrors I have yet to find them.

Peter

 

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1 hour ago, blucarsdn said:

Jay Fisher,  in NJ, 732 388-6442 has original style door hinge pin rear view mirrors for the '39 Plymn's, very pricey, last I heard about $450. a pair.

I used the aftermarket "Swan" style of mirrors on my '39 Plym conv coupe, they look look like original equipment. The right had mirror is basically useless, however, I glue a 3.5" "fish-eye" mirror on top of the mirror, gives me great field of view and most people don't notice the mirror overlay.

 

Great looking car!

All good information, I would like to have seen the hinge pin mount mirrors but at 400+ thats way out of my price.

I notice you have your mirrors mounted on an L-shape bracket. Where did you get that?

 

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The '37 through '41 DCPD open cars had a bolt-on wind wing that I don't like the looks of, they don't fit to the "A" pillar very well and they are very prone to getting broken.

There are three 1/4-20 blind nuts incorporated into the door skin for the wind wings to attach to. I made a wooden "buck" out of hard wood to match the contour of the door, I then made a pattern of the wind wing base, transferred the pattern to a piece of aluminum and proceeded to hammer the aluminum into shape using plastic and/or wooden mallets. A little polishing and drilling the holes to match the door finished the mount.

I then positioned the Swan mirror on the bracket, drilling same to match the screw pattern on the mirror base. I contacted Metro Rubber and purchased  original style of rubber mounting pads... I mounted the units onto the doors using original style 1/4-20 bolts.

Most people think the mirrors and base mounts are original equipment.. I kinda fib a little, responding to people's questions that the mirror assembly is a special California item, the same as my one piece rear gravel shield. 

I installed Volks Wagon door hinge pin mirrors on my '36 Ford coupe many years ago. They were a direct fit with no modifications. The DCPD's use the same size door pin a Ford, therefore I think the VW mirrors would be an easy fit..

36 Ford VW hing pin mirror.1.jpg

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59 minutes ago, blucarsdn said:

Most people think the mirrors and base mounts are original equipment.. I kinda fib a little, responding to people's questions that the mirror assembly is a special California item, the same as my one piece rear gravel shield. 

I installed Volks Wagon door hinge pin mirrors on my '36 Ford coupe many years ago. They were a direct fit with no modifications. The DCPD's use the same size door pin a Ford, therefore I think the VW mirrors would be an easy fit..

 

I thought they were original equipment as well. You did a real good job of fabrication and they look nice. My first thought when I saw them was they looked more sturdy then just mounting the side mirrors to the door skin. Mounted on the door skins I see them coming loose and warbling out the holes after a while. But what you did is a good idea. I might try and do something like that if I don't go for the hinge pin mount.

I had looked at the Volkswagen mirrors after reading HughForrest's topic reply. On some Volkswagen website which I cant find now but where you can get older rebuild parts I looked at the mirrors and hinge pins they had and I do remember thinking they would work - or you could make them work.

Which do you think was better? The mirrors you have on your 39 or the hinge pin ones you have on your 36??

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40 minutes ago, Lloyd said:

I thought they were original equipment as well. You did a real good job of fabrication and they look nice. My first thought when I saw them was they looked more sturdy then just mounting the side mirrors to the door skin. Mounted on the door skins I see them coming loose and warbling out the holes after a while. But what you did is a good idea. I might try and do something like that if I don't go for the hinge pin mount.

I had looked at the Volkswagen mirrors after reading HughForrest's topic reply. On some Volkswagen website which I cant find now but where you can get older rebuild parts I looked at the mirrors and hinge pins they had and I do remember thinking they would work - or you could make them work.

Which do you think was better? The mirrors you have on your 39 or the hinge pin ones you have on your 36??

Lloyd, I would suggest the VW hinge pin mirrors, they are basically a no brainer..

I first saw the VW mirrors on a '36 Ford Roadster in about '63. I chased the car down because the mirrors, left and right, looked much better than the stock Ford hinge pin mirrors. I beat feet to the VW dealer and bought a set for my '36 Ford.

As I mentioned in my comments about the '39 Plym, the right mirror is hard to see things in, this can be solved by putting a 3.5" fish-eye mirror over the original mirror..  With a fish-eye mirror glued over the original mirror you can see the entire right side of the car, fender, etc., with just a brief glance.

I looked online, the VW mirrors are available from:

jbugs.com

1946-1967 Beetle P#113857513AME left.. #11385714AME right at $24.95 each

Hinge pins ...... 111857514 @ $6.95 ea...

Wm..

 

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22 hours ago, Lloyd said:

Thank you. I've been leaning towards the hinge pin mount - just wasnt sure what would work.

 

lloyd,

I just purchased a pair, left/right w/hinge pins of the VW mirrors from JBugs.com, total price including shipping,  $78.69.

I had been thinking about purchasing an extra set of mirrors for my '36 for quite some time, my have been on the car since about 1964, they are original German VW and in excellent shape, however, do-do occurs when least expected.

The door hinge pins can be very hard to remove. There is a tool made to remove the pins with very little beating on them with a 3/16 drift punch and a hammer. Spray some BLASTER on the hinges, letting it soak for a few days. I believe that Drake has the pin press tool.

If you should need any body parts and/or accessories for your '39 Plym let me know. I parted out three '39 sedans when I was rebuilding my convertible coupe, have sold a lot of the extra parts that I had, however, I still have a lot of stuff, some of which is NOS.

Bill     

 

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Thanks Bill,

I'll keep you in mind if I need any parts. Pretty much got mine together mechanically, right now I'm getting ready to paint it. Never painted a car in my life but U-Tube has all. Hopefully next year I will be driving it.

I was wondering about removing the hinge pins. I read on one of the advertisements that they recommend you paint your car after replacing the hinge pins. That was encouraging.

Would you have a link to Drakes? I'd like to see a hinge press.

Haven't heard from Dennis Detweiler who first posted this topic. I didn't mean to run off with his post.

 

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Looked at Eastwood and lot of complaints. Cast steel- The tool broke, bolt head is to big, pins are not hardened steel. But i  did find Drake at   bobdrake.com. Looks like carpenters has the same tool. It’s forged steel with hardened pins for an extra $5. They say it’s for early fords but if the VW pins fit fords and Mopar I’m assuming the tool will work for a 39 Plymouth. 

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From my experience working on GM/Ford & DCPD vehicles for the past thirty plus years, I have found that the majority of the door hinge pins are basically the same, 1/4" with the upper portion being a splined affair in the upper portion.

The info that DD supplied about replacing the hinge pins with new and re-installing the doors prior to painting is spot on. Once a door has been removed from the body, it can be a real chore re-installing it and getting properly aligned.

I generally have a lot of body work skill, and the patience to go along with it, however, from time to time I encounter a door, fender, etc., that I have to call upon a pro to fix.

A few years ago I was involved in the restoration of a second '39 Plymouth Conv Cpe.. On my postings on the POC web site I referred to the second '39 conv as the "Alabama Car". The car was reputedly "paint ready" when my friend purchased the car, all of the rust issues had been repaired, including a new floor pan. Serious issues started cropping up with car, doors, fenders, etc., did not fit correctly. After much work trying to get things to align properly it was found that the body and chassis was out of square. The vehicle was put on a frame machine which revealed that the chassis and body was 1.5" out of square. the entire chassis and body had to be cut apart and correctly re-aligned.

Lots of work and naturally a lot of money because the first body man did not check the chassis for square and parallel before he reinstalled the body to the chassis and started the rust out repairs. 

Wm.

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  • 3 months later...

Little update on mounting VW hinge mirrows on my 39 P8

 

I removed the top hinge pin from the passenger door using the hinge removal tool from Bratton's:

https://www.brattons.com/door-hinge-pin-removal-tool.html

If you look at the advertisements on Bratton's the kit only shows 3 pins but the kit I received had about 8 pins in it. Also ordered the pins for the 31 Slant Window but turned out I did not need them. Did a pretty good job. I soaked the hinge in PB Blaster for about two days spraying it a couple times a day. Supported the door on the bottom, installed the clamp and tightened. At first it would not budge. I snugged it down pretty tight and left it for about 2 hours. Then came back tightened a little more and rapped the top of the clamp with a hammer. When I took another turn on the screw the pin started moving.

 

The original hinge pin that came from my door is the one on the left, the one on the right is for a 56-67 VW Beetle. The one for the VW will not work. Its to short and to wide.

 

Original Pin

Diameter .28"

Length (bottom of cap to end) 2.74"

Length (top of knurl to end 2.66"

 

VW Pin

Diameter .312"

Length (bottom of cap to end) 2.27"

Length (top of knurl to end 1.935"

 

Did a search on the internet for automotive hinge pins hoping to come up with a pin same specs as original and threaded but no luck so far. Only real option I see is to get new stock replacement pins for my 39 then weld the threaded portion of the VW pin on it.

 

5a9c12cae7615_HingePins.JPG.15d55c30956e0da623458fb5b9059888.JPG

 

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I did a little research on the door hinge pin problem. I found that the hinges on my '36 Ford are 2-1/16", where-as the hinges on my '39 Plym are 2-1/2".

As Lloyd has pointed out the VW pin is thicker than the Plym pin.

It would appear that I reamed the Ford hinge out to fit the VW pin, which would be a lot easier than trying to cut/weld the two pins together. One thing to keep in mind is the existing holes are probably a little over-size from years of use, which reaming out would correct. The shortness of the pin might require the welding on of an extention piece.

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Hey Bill,

My hinges seem to be fine. The doors open and close without any play. I dont want to look at reaming them just yet. If I did I would still have to weld an extension on to use the VW pin. I also notice that the knurled section on the original is longer than the VW pin. 

I ordered a couple stock pins from Bernbaum's. I plan on welding the tops of VW pins onto those. I can't weld good enough for that so I will be taking them to my machinist and seeing if he can help.

 

After all this I started eye-balling the mirror placement on the hinge from the drivers seat this morning. I hope it isnt mounted to far forward. I know they have a mirror with a longer arm but it seems it would be better if they were further back. Its hard to say unless someone else has tried it, and sat in the drivers seat and looked at it. It would be something if I went thru this and found out I would have been better off just getting the swan type bolt on mirrors or even the clamp on mirror. But I'm leaning this way, I believe I'm going to finish chasing it down and if it turns into goose chase then oh well, I'll try something else.

 

I'll repost once I get the pins fabricated then again with the mirror mounted. 

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  • 5 months later...

Well I got some time to work on my car. Since I plan on painting it I thought I would tackle the side mirror problem. I ordered the pins and mirror off eBay.

Stock Door Pins: www.ebay.com/itm/283081985270

VW Mirror Pins: https://www.ebay.com/itm/172251506289

VW Passenger Mirror: https://www.ebay.com/itm/172855156996

 

Cut the screw portion off the VW pins. Flattened out the head of the stock pin with a grinder so the cut VW pin would have a flat surface to place it on. Placed a nut on the threaded portion to try and keep from buggering the threads - little note here, it was hard finding a nut, don't think its SAE or metric - best fit I could find was a metric M12-1.25. Got a few threads before it seemed to want to tighten up so I took the few threads. Then used a C-Clamp to hold it all together then welded it up. The pin sticks up a little and the mirror does not screw all the way down onto the top of the hinge. Don't care for that much but I plan on getting a chrome spacer with a teflon washer below it to help protect the paint. Cut that to fit and slip it between the top portion of the hinge pin and the base of the mirror to hide it.

 

Included some pics, looks like it will work. The pic with the two mirrors shows the pins as well. The middle pin is the stock pin from my car and the other two on each side is what I got off eBay. The second pear shaped mirror I thought I would try but cannot see it from the drivers seat. So it does not work. 

 

I just ordered the other mirror for the other side. This one has the long arm but the one for the drivers side does not have the long arm. Guess thats they way they came out on the early VW's. But I'm going to roll with it.

 

IMG_2133.JPG.6c59ceff5d74f132308e1f65d39681dd.JPGIMG_2135.JPG.376a2684ba1aecf9d27181062cd8ef13.JPGIMG_2136.JPG.ee52879f323fb9bf2eea09054ec79754.JPGIMG_2138.JPG.873edd4199d997e5b32d148900893dfd.JPGIMG_2141.JPG.05d503b1bd5edb4805a606c4283fc1ef.JPGIMG_2142.JPG.209d181a9884e4689f3ffa005b0b91e5.JPGIMG_2145.JPG.6776b076b72315011432acaf6b2051f2.JPG

 

 

 

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Lloyd, Looks like you figured out how to modify the VW/Plym  hinge pins to mount the VW mirrors on your '39. I found the location of the mirrors, sitting above the mounting pins to be a little un-sightly looking, I like modifications to look as close to stock as possible, the terminology is usually "eye sweet".

Wm.

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Well so much for this eBay mirror.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/172855156996

Store Name: cencaldistributors

 

Moved it a little yesterday and the glass fell out. I could glue it back in but still ticks me off. Taiwan stuff. I'm not using them. $20 bucks down the drain.

 

IMG_2150.JPG.4378c22d952d7d51fbab86c6d1f4e30f.JPG

 

Looking at these now:

http://www.westcoastmetric.com/c-1173800-vw-bug-sedan-1960-vw-bug-sedan-exterior-mirrors-hardware.html

Says made in USA. Little more expensive but I don't mind if they last more than a couple days without falling apart.

 

I was thinking of something else with welding the screw portion onto the hinge pin. Rather than cutting the VW pin and leaving a portion of the shank then welding that onto the head of the original pin, I was thinking cutting right at the base of the threads then drilling a hole all the way thru it. Grind the protruding cap portion off the original pin and inserting it into the threaded portion then reaching inside and putting a little spot weld inside there. That should put the threaded portion right on top of the door hinge.

 

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  • 5 years later...

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