Help picking a motor for my 1940 chrysler

[Ajgkirkwood]

There was a 1955 230 flathead about 4 hours me. It was 400 with 3 speed with overdrive. I know the od is rare but didnt know what it was missing to make work or if it would work with my car

[greg g]

Yep different times and different dollars.  Just suggesting a base line.  And have no idea what machine shop rates are in the Great White North.

[Ajgkirkwood]

That coupe is jaw dropping.

I have to get hold of tim. I do think it be cool to keep it flathead. Will the crank  rods be ok to use? My goal for the flathead is 150hp and 275-300 foot pounds of torque and gear it so it stays low rpm on the highway. Does the 264 use the same pistons from a 251?

[Ajgkirkwood]

I can say they arent great up in ontario haha. I myself might be able to mill down the head myself though and do simple machining. I can use honing stones on the cylinders

[Jolly]

My 40, 241 flathead is in machine shop now. Pistons, crank ground, 2 new rod, valve guides, and machine work will be 3,500 to 4,000 when finished. It hurts to pay that much but I want to drive it long distances worry free. 

My other 40 Chrysler might get the v8, auto, a/c treatment.  

[greg g]

What are your long distance plans.  The Walter P Chrysler club national meet is in Chatanooga next year in Sept.  Several folks from NY and New England are planning a group trek.  The more the merrier. Nice looking Chrysler.

[Ajgkirkwood]

Wow its showing a 12 hour drive for me. What time in sept? Last chance car show is the last sunday of September

[Ajgkirkwood]

What would cause low oil pressure and how do i go about getting it higher

[Bryan]

4 hours ago, Ajgkirkwood said:

What would cause low oil pressure and how do i go about getting it higher

 

[55 Fargo]

6 hours ago, Ajgkirkwood said:

What would cause low oil pressure and how do i go about getting it higher

Generally too much bearing clearance from wear reduces oil pressure.

BTW what type of oil you running and what viscosity?

[Ajgkirkwood]

When cycling oil through it we were using whatever we could get cheap because we were just using it to flush it through. When we got to the oil changes where it was to actually be driven. We used motomaster straight 30 weight. Bottle of lucas oil stabilizer and a bottle of zddp. This current oil change however is motomaster straight 30 with a bottle of stp oil treatment. I just saw this bottle at canadian tire. Loved the price. It has zddp in it and similar thickness to the lucas and similar things they do but this has the zddp and its 5 bucks a bottle vs lucas being 18 and the zddp being 12. Mind you the stp is about half the amount of liquid compared to lucas. I could always put 2 in

[55 Fargo]

2 hours ago, Ajgkirkwood said:

When cycling oil through it we were using whatever we could get cheap because we were just using it to flush it through. When we got to the oil changes where it was to actually be driven. We used motomaster straight 30 weight. Bottle of lucas oil stabilizer and a bottle of zddp. This current oil change however is motomaster straight 30 with a bottle of stp oil treatment. I just saw this bottle at canadian tire. Loved the price. It has zddp in it and similar thickness to the lucas and similar things they do but this has the zddp and its 5 bucks a bottle vs lucas being 18 and the zddp being 12. Mind you the stp is about half the amount of liquid compared to lucas. I could always put 2 in

Forget the ZDDP this ain't no Stovebolt Chevy 6 or a Ford Flathead V8 and I doubt they need it either.

The Motomaster "30" is fine or something like Rotella T 15 W 40, which still includes about 1200 ppm of zinc.

Your money so your choice, but I have never used any ZDDP additive in any of the flatheads I have had.

[Bryan]

Rather wordy..spends several paragraphs proving his qualifications to rate oils, then explanations on zinc, etc. Go to the list about at the top 1/4 of the whole thing...

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/ 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Bryan

[55 Fargo]

12 minutes ago, Bryan said:

Rather wordy..spends several paragraphs proving his qualifications to rate oils, then explanations on zinc, etc. Go to the list about at the top 1/4 of the whole thing...

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/ 

Bryan have read it all. So it ain't convincing me 1 ioda.

Simply put these low revving low valve spring  pressure engines do well without adding ZDDP period.

Nir do these engines need Lead additives as they have hardened exhaust valve seats from the factory.

But your engine your money your choice...

Edited November 3, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Bryan]

Pretty sure he wasn't pushing the importance of zinc last time I read it.  Or leaded fuels. Main was how well oil holds up under pressure and high temps.

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Bryan

[Bryan]

From article ..."In recent years there have been entirely too many wiped cam lobes and ruined lifter failures in traditional American flat tappet engines, even though a variety of well respected brand name parts were typically used. These failures involved people using various high zinc oils, various high zinc Break-In oils, various Diesel oils, and various oils with aftermarket zinc additives added to the oil. They believed that any high zinc oil concoction is all they needed for wear protection during flat tappet engine break-in and after break-in. But, all of those failures have proven over and over again, that their belief in high zinc was nothing more than a MYTH, just as my test data has shown.

.
A high level of zinc/phos is simply no guarantee of providing sufficient wear protection. And to make matters even worse, excessively high levels of zinc/phos can actually “cause” DAMAGE your engine, rather than “prevent” it. Motor Oil Industry testing has found that motor oils with more than 1,400 ppm ZDDP, INCREASED long-term wear. And it was also found that motor oils with more than 2,000 ppm ZDDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling (pitting and flaking). The ZDDP value is simply the average of the zinc and the phosphorus values, then rounded down to the nearest 100 ppm (parts per million)."

[55 Fargo]

42 minutes ago, Bryan said:

Pretty sure he wasn't pushing the importance of zinc last time I read it.  Or leaded fuels. Main was how well oil head up under pressure and high temps.

 

Yes I agree but to be real honest this has been beaten to death on this forum and over on the HAMB.

These engines do quite well without ZDDP additives and quite frankly live well on bargain oils too.

But again the owners money their choice.

I do not see the need for any additives in my oils most oils have an additive balance so adding other items can change that.

Some will agree and some wont thats life salt or no salt.

1 last thing I do not believe every piece of propaganda that is out there as gospel.

I have yet to see a cam get ruined in these engines using normal ordinary engine oils.

Fake propoganda all kinds out there by marketing schemes intending to make money...

 

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Adam H P15 D30]

Zinc is only needed with high lift and high valve spring pressures, our flatheads have neither of these. In the case of high spring pressures, don't kid yourself, zinc is needed and it is not a myth just not too much. I believe the magic number is ~1000ppm. Like a previous poster stated, the topic has been beaten to death here and elsewhere. 

Adam

[MackTheFinger]

On 11/2/2017 at 10:42 AM, Ajgkirkwood said:

Hello there. Name ia Adam. First post on this forum. Been trying to join for alittle while but the sign up gave me issues.... Btw what is the difference between a business and club coupe?

This is my first classic and its a 1940 chrysler windsor 2 door. I have always wanted a coupe but never looked at getting on cause they are so much money. The car came up and the price was more then right. I had to make it happen. Had to get it.

The car was owned by a man the same age as the car and with help from people it was kept running up till about last year. I was say and from what i heard it was driven hard and put away wet kinda thing. The orginal engine puked (he was on an lucas oil stabilizer fix from what i was told. Kept topping up with lucas. When the motor was pulled the crank i was told was blue!)

So they got hold of a replacement motor. A 264 from a 1954 chrysler. The motor had a rebuild tag from 1964 and when they put the motor in about 2 years ago they cleaned out the pan and put new gaskets from what i was told. The motor had a carter 1bb carb that i guess was worn out so it was bored open and the jet drilled out. Well i guess it ate fuel.

So now you have alittle back story ill get to the point. The car i got on the road and have been enjoying it. Didnt run but after a tune up it fired right up (2 of the 7 spark plug wires were completey corroded. It fell apart in my hands) when i did drive it i got like 6mpg. Did some messing around with the 1bb and it got better. I have switched to a 2 barrel and performance and fuel economy improved however im getting like 16-17mpg driving softly. 

I like to have better fuel economy for sure so i plan to switch the back axle. Which would be best and easy that im not sure of yet. I want to put disk brakes all around so guidance here would help.

I have it running on 6v (it had a 8v battery) im thinking about going to 12v for easier starting and maybe put a radio in etc.

now for the sinning. Beware those with sensitive stomachs dont continue reading

you been warned....

the 264 in the car is mated to the orginal 3 speed of the 1940. It pulls aright but i like to have a bit more power. I like to get hold of a 4 or 5 speed thats synced. If i keep the flathead i like to do a draw through turbo and hide is to make it still look stock and look like its n/a at first glance. Not talking alot of boost. About 5-7psi.

the motor however i wonder needs a rebuild? I do lose some oil over time. My oil pressure is about 25 going 50mph. Maybe 28-30 going over 60 mph. When i first got it running it smoked really bad and had alot of blow by. Its cleaned up alot since then (doing like 10 oil changes helps) so with all this said i think ill be pulling out the engine some how. I dont know how much it cost me to rebuild but it leads me to think if i rebuild it. It might be better to put that money into another motor to get the power im after? This leads me to the v8 (yes i know, boring. I rather the flathead) i have access to a 318 that had  short block rebuilt for cheap. Its all cast though. But it be easier to get the transmission i want mated to this engine. I might turbo this motor too so its not like everyone else.

i dont want to spent tons and im afraid rebuilding the flathead will cost the same or more then the v8

pic is of the car the day i got it running

That's a really nice car. An A-833 would be a great choice for better highway cruising although they aren't thick on the ground around here. 

[55 Fargo]

On 02/11/2017 at 4:56 PM, Ajgkirkwood said:

That coupe is jaw dropping.

I have to get hold of tim. I do think it be cool to keep it flathead. Will the crank  rods be ok to use? My goal for the flathead is 150hp and 275-300 foot pounds of torque and gear it so it stays low rpm on the highway. Does the 264 use the same pistons from a 251?

A well built 265 the right cam dual or tri carb intake and headers.

This would easily make over 150 hp and rev to 5000 rpm.

Torque numbers not sure but 250 to 275 could be had.

Heck factory spec was 120 hp and 228 ft lbs torque.

The big truck 265s with factory dual carbs and exhaust more like 136 to 150 hp

[dale]

Probably get hanged for this but...How about instaling a Ford 300 ci inline six  ?  Easy to find, should fit in well, cheap to buy and or overhaul, lots of power, trnsmission choices including Fordomatics, etc. etc.

[55 Fargo]

24 minutes ago, dale said:

Probably get hanged for this but...How about instaling a Ford 300 ci inline six  ?  Easy to find, should fit in well, cheap to buy and or overhaul, lots of power, trnsmission choices including Fordomatics, etc. etc.

I wouldn't  say hang you how bout "tar and feathers"....lol

Seriously the 300 Ford engine is a great engine with 7 main bearings.

Can be made to go like a shot outta H.

But a well built 265 aint no slouch and would be plenty of power.

Anything but a small block Chevy and I have owned a lot of 283s and love em..

Edited November 4, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Ricky Luke]

On 03/11/2017 at 12:38 PM, Jolly said:

My 40, 241 flathead is in machine shop now. Pistons, crank ground, 2 new rod, valve guides, and machine work will be 3,500 to 4,000 when finished. It hurts to pay that much but I want to drive it long distances worry free. 

My other 40 Chrysler might get the v8, auto, a/c treatment.  

Jolly, can you please box that dog house up and post it to me? It’s got all the missing pieces I need ...

Rick

Edited November 5, 2017 by Ricky Luke

[wayfarer]

I'll add a couple of random thoughts. 

If you want a 5-6 speed manual then perhaps the best option, and one that can be done in your garage, is to follow Robert Horne's swap with the Ford Range 5-spd. The A-833, as great as they are, are not getting cheaper or easier to find, and they are still a 3+1. Oh Yeah, the linkage alone can be hundreds of dollars US. Just food for thought....

You should have a long talk with your favorite machine shop and have them price out a full overhaul of your 264 so you have a place to start making comparisons. Quite frankly, I am shocked by Jolly's rebuild costs.

If you want a v-8 and 5spd then start looking for rusted out Dodge pickups, 1500 or Dakota, with the 318 or 360 Magnum and 5-spd trans. Some even had a Getrag 6-spd.  You will require a new rear axle so look for an Explorer with the disc brakes you were planning on. Yes, a swap of this kind is not for the faint of heart as it will require some serious fab skills, but a bone stock v8 will have more power than any modified L head.  And, if you don't want to muck about with the oem EFI then there are other intake manifilds available for carbs/throttle bodies.

I'll stop here as I'm sure that some will disagree with my approach.

[Plymouthy Adams]

26 minutes ago, wayfarer said:

I'll add a couple of random thoughts. 

...............

I'll stop here as I'm sure that some will disagree with my approach.

I could not agree any more...newer is better if you wish to have just power and economy combined in your ride and the knowing if you out and about and a parts goes tits up you can walk into the big box store and get a replacement....it does not come without major intervention however...you are only limited by your lack of getting started and the depth of your imagination...

Edited November 5, 2017 by Plymouthy Adams