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ignition/electrical help


homer41

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I am trying to start my 41 201. The issue is energizing the spark. I have it turning over with a remote 12 volt battery. Where is the 6volt connection to the coil? Is it from inside the cab, from the ignition switch to the back of the coil? I planned on just putting 6volt to the coil but did not know where. After looking at the schematic it appears to be on the back of the coil, is it in the cab?  Dave

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Yes. The coil is mounted through the firewall and there is a wire terminal on the backside of your coil (up under the dashboard) which is where the ignition switch power wire attaches and then on the engine side there is another wire terminal with a wire that goes to the distributor. I would pour a small amount of gasoline into the carburetor and see if it starts up briefly. If it does, you have a fuel delivery problem. Again, just a small amount of fuel. Best of luck to you Dave.

John R

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Just what I wanted to hear, thankyou. This car has not been run in 9 years according to the previous  owner. I put fresah oil in it, spun starter not engaged, engaged starter and spun engine with no plugs. Installed plugs and spun. Now I will get 6 volts to the coil, put some gas to it and see if it fires. If it fires I will move it outside hook up an external fuel supply and go for an extended run. Thanks again, I will let you know how it goes.   Dave

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No joy, I went at it again, I traced the wiring from the ignition switch to the firewall. I need to explain the wires are cut at the firewall and are very crumbly, the insulation is.  I am pretty sure I have it correct. I hooked up my 6 volt battery charger to power the ignition, I tested the charger with a 6v headlight and it worked fine. Put gas in and no start. Pulled plugs spin again, no spark. Pulled dist cap, cleaned points and checked gap, I get a spark when ignition is on and I open points.  All back together, crank, no spark. How can I test the coil?  Any other thoughts?  Dave

 

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You're getting closer. Check if there is spark at the end of the coil lead. ie. pull the coil lead out of the dissy cap and place near the engine block.

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Another thing to try after confirming that you have fuel and spark where you say that the engine has not been running for almost 10 years is to remove the spark plugs and add a small amount of engine oil in each plug hole, not much, four or five squirts from an oil can in each cylinder  should do it. Where the engine has not run in so long and is now failing to start, what oil that was on the cylinder walls has washed away. Before putting the plugs back in, turn the engine over once to disperse the added oil in the cylinders. Put in the sparkplugs and try to start the car; see if this helps. I have had success with this trick in the past. When it starts, it will smoke like hell at first but will soon burn off. Good luck to you

John R

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Just a thought you might want to check the little wire inside the distributor to see if it has a broken place in it. I had this problem before when I wasn't getting any spark to the plugs. Just a thought

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Good news bad news! I cleaned everything up, taped up bare wires, new points. It now fires. Now the bad, it does not run, I tried some gas, then some starting fluid, no joy! Did a compression check, 40  0. 45  0. 65. 30.   Thinking I could possibly have 2 valves sticking open?? What 

Would a reasonable compression # be?  Dave

 

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Homer, you would want to see compression at 100 lbs or higher. Re read post 8. With oil on the rings , compression will come up. Hopefully enough for it to start. With good luck any stuck valves might break free.

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With those numbers, you are really close to it starting and running on 4 cylinders. 65 is enough, 45 is maybe maybe not, 40 and 30 are low.

Between the rings re-seating and stuck valves, turning it over and getting oil into the cylinders will help.

At this point, many would suggest to pop off the head and the side covers, gaskets are cheap. You can visually see whats going on and correct it.

 

Myself, might hook a chain onto it and have a buddy pull me around the pasture a few times with it in gear.

Not saying it is the right way to do it, We use to buy these cars all day long for $15, and this method was used a million times.

Now if you try this, break anything, will cost a couple hundred $ to replace.

But your compression is really close for it starting on its own, then let it run and warm up and go from there.

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Pulled side covers, 2 stuck valves, little work with small prybar and stuck no more,  spun engine, no sticking, added fuel and spark, crank but no run. Should I use starting fluid or gas? The only gas I had was 90 octane, should I try with 87?  Should I oil the cylinders again?  Dave

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It sparks fine but no idea of the timing, the only fuel going to it is what I put in, tank is empty. I will put some oil in the cylinders and try again.

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Put # 6 cylinder at tdc then pulled dist  cap, rotor is pointing at #6 so it is in the ball park. No start. Compression on #2 is 40. #1 is less than 40. Shot some oil in all cylinders, still no start. I still think I am looking at replace or rebuild.  Dave

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11 hours ago, Don Coatney said:

Although a couple cylinders are low you should have enough compression to start the engine. Once the engine is running the compression may come back. Let it run for a while and see what happens..

This is what I would do. I have seen cars that were not run for years like yours come back after being started and run for a while. Sticking valves is very common on engines that have sat unused. Once it is running again, you can monitor oil pressure, engine temperature etc. Best wishes.

John R

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Double check that your distributor is not 180 degrees off.  Been there, done that.

The marks on the damper pulley don't tell you if Top Dead Center is at the end of the compression stroke or 180 degrees off.    

I've used the thumb method of determining if No. 1 (or No. 6) is at TDC of the compression stroke.  Plugs out. Thumb over the plug hole.  I can feel the compression stroke.  

Another way is to have an in-line spark indicator on the spark plug wire.  I can see the plug getting its jolt as the damper marks are around TDC.  

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4 hours ago, DonaldSmith said:

I've used the thumb method of determining if No. 1 (or No. 6) is at TDC of the compression stroke.  Plugs out. Thumb over the plug hole.  I can feel the compression stroke.  

Another way is to have an in-line spark indicator on the spark plug wire.  I can see the plug getting its jolt as the damper marks are around TDC.  

Nice tricks. Thanks for sharing 

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My reason for wanting to rebuild is I can not see spending all the hours rebuildng everything else on the car and not knowing  that the engine is in as good of shape as the rest. I would hate to do a full restoration and then have engine  issues. That is just me, I can be a bit anal at times. When I started  on my 47 streetrod i told my sister I was not painting it or anything,  her reply  was you can't do anything  half assed.   Dave

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