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Timing to retarded or not.


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4 minutes ago, Don Coatney said:

Adjusting the distributor timing with the slots on the bottom of the distributor does not change top dead center. Top dead center occurs when the number one and the number six pistons are at the uppermost travel. IF the oil pump was indexed per the book the rotor should point to 7:00 or 1:00 o-clock. IF the oil pump was not indexed per the book then the rotor could be pointing anywhere when the engine is at top dead center. When your pointer on the timing cover indicates the engine is at TDC by lining up with the marks on the engine pulley where is your rotor pointing?

And I get that. It was at TDC before I put the electronic ignition in to it and moved bottom bolt. It is popping out the carb now and wasn't doing it before. I guess I pissed around to much and need to go back to the way it was. 

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21 minutes ago, bambamshere said:

And I get that. It was at TDC before I put the electronic ignition in to it and moved bottom bolt. It is popping out the carb now and wasn't doing it before. I guess I pissed around to much and need to go back to the way it was. 

When your pointer on the timing cover indicates the engine is at TDC by lining up with the marks on the engine pulley where is your rotor pointing?

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question is, when at the 6 o'clock position, was the rotor pointing to number one INDICATED on the distributor cap or was it wo far off that rotating the distributor by using the extra slop with the built in adjustment come into play and you still not right?...did you try indexing the wires to match your mechanical alignment?  advance/retard wiring order one tower as needed.......with all been done and you not knowing for sure now what is what......GO BACK TO FACTORY stats

set your car TDC #1, check your oil pump index and if not at 7-1 slant  index the pump...install your distributor and index the wiring to match with one at 7 and correct firing order about the cap...start the puppy and time with your timing light.   

There is no need to quess at this when the book clearly points out how easy it is to go back to stock setup and be assured you are right

 

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Oops totally forgot that I took the vacuum line off the other day. To go buy new one. Oh well got to go buy one. Trying to figure out why I was getting a fuel smell and the teuck was running fast at idle. Got to go and get vacuum hose. 

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So I decided tonight to look at my timing lightm i started the truck and let warm up. I put the timing light on because I had marked it before a 0 degrees. Anyways I looked at it and the mark is bounce around. Could need new timing chain/belt. Guess I should check everything again. Anyone know on these trucks how many degrees it needs to move on rotor before you know it you need another timing chain/belt or without taking everything apart a easier way. 

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Ok so I was wondering. I still see the slite movement in the distributor when truck is running. Could that be a reason for the bounce in the timing light. I checked timing light on my buddys 1969 Sport Fury and it wasn't bouncing. I put thay electronic ignition in. Now could it be that it came with a spacer. Should I put that in. It looks like a black plastic spacer not sure if it goes on top or bottom. Theres nothing in instructions. 

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If its the Pertronix kit, essentially there are two versions, lobe sensing and a hall effects. The lobe sensing one  screws on to where the points would normally sit on the breaker plate,at a certain distance away from the cam lobe. The hall effects one also has the magnetic module that fits over the cam lobes to trigger the sensor.

Your timing is probably wondering due to distributor cap, rotor, spark plug leads or even spark plugs. Or maybe the Pertronix sensor is not close enough to one or some of the cam lobes, or trigger, but less likely.

Don't be shy to post a pic, will speak more words than your above paragraph.

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K so I will get pictures in a bit but right now. I timed it for about 2 degrees advanced but it wont run. It idles alright then you step on it and it sies after you let the pedel go. Not sure if it is the carb or timing. Runs if I put it a about 6 degrees advanced. I have the bottom bolt undone so I can turn it. Then I loosen the side bolt and move it to where it needs to be again. Should I just keep playing with it?

Oh ya the number 1 sparkplug wire was loose. On distributor so I pushed it done in to it. Plus I wire the petronix to past the ballest resistor. Now the timing light isn't bouncing around on the pulley. 

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Is your crank shaft pulley just a metal pulley or is it a bonded rubber and steel vibration damper?  The dampers can sometimes begin to delaminate, which may cause the timing marks to be inaccurate.  They can be repaired by damper doctor .com.

 

Edited by greg g
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ON the Pertronix kit the piece of plastic is a "feeler gauge" to set the space between the wheel that fits over the lobes and the pick up that screws down to the dist. plate.

The plastic piece is not used for anything after that.

If you can move the rotor side to side more that a tiny amount (motor off) your dist. bushings are worn to the point that they need to be replaced.

Try hooking the timing light to other plugs wires one at a time and just watch the light against the motor. If the light is missing lighting at times that plug/cap/wire  is Not having a spark to ground at the plug. By checking one at a time you may find some of your plugs are not firing in the motor.

dj

Edited by DJ194950
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Ok so what it's doing now. When you first start it it is idling fine. Then when it heats up to normal operating Temp around 180 Degrees. If I step on the gas it will rev up. But as soon as you let go of the gas the idle goes down and it stalls. Start it up again and idles fine.

Right now it is running at 2 degrees and idle is set for 500 rpm. At around 1500 rpm it's sitting at around 13 degrees. When you let go of gas it stalls. It was running not to bad till I set the timing to where it is supposed to be. 

So I have a new coil new, new plug wires, new distributor cap, new ballest resistor and new Petronix ignition in it.

I have tried moving the wires ahead 1 but truck wouldn't start. I have put timing light on all the wires and it all looks fine. I have black wire for electronic ignition going to coil and red going to ignition in truck. 

I understand that there is a clear piece of plastic that comes with the Petronix ignition so you can measure the distance. But there is also a black plastic o ring that I am not sure about. Might call tomorrow and ask. I have Google it and haven't found anything. 

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Do the troubleshooting checks that is stated in the pertronix instruction,ie. check resistance of your coil and the voltage on the red wire of the pertronix module.

 

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You might just need to play with your idle mixture screw. It sounds like it's just getting over lean on return to idle and stalling out. I don't believe it's an ignition problem. Also check for any vacuum leaks. They will be exaggerated on deceleration when the vacuum is the highest.

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Has the ground been changed to negative, has the coil been rewired to operate on negative ground?  In a positive ground set up the wire from the ignition switch would go to the negative terminal on the coil, the positive terminal would then go through the points to ground. The opposite would be the case for negative ground. It will run that way but not at its best especially at higher revs.  Since your vehicle has the through the fire wall coil,you would need to wire the ignition switch to the under hood terminal and the inside terminal to the engine.  If I was doing this, I would abandon the stock coil, get a new internally resisted one from Napa or other similar source, mount it under the hood, assure it is wired properly to match the vehicles polarity, forget about the ballast resister, as the coil is already resisted.  Then bring it up to number one tdc on compression and check the firing order dist to plugs wires again from wherever the rotor happens to point. And then see what happens.  Is your pertronix unit a negative ground set up, and was it wired for the current ground set up?

Didn't see the part about the new coil but proper wiring correct for the polarity is a must.

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6 minutes ago, greg g said:

Has the ground been changed to negative, has the coil been rewired to operate on negative ground?  In a positive ground set up the wire from the ignition switch would go to the negative terminal on the coil, the positive terminal would then go through the points to ground. The opposite would be the case for negative ground. It will run that way but not at its best especially at higher revs.  Since your vehicle has the through the fire wall coil,you would need to wire the ignition switch to the under hood terminal and the inside terminal to the engine.  If I was doing this, I would abandon the stock coil, get a new internally resisted one from Napa or other similar source, mount it under the hood, assure it is wired properly to match the vehicles polarity, forget about the ballast resister, as the coil is already resisted.  Then bring it up to number one tdc on compression and check the firing order dist to plugs wires again from wherever the rotor happens to point. And then see what happens.  Is your pertronix unit a negative ground set up, and was it wired for the current ground set up?

Didn't see the part about the new coil but proper wiring correct for the polarity is a must.

It has been since I got it a 12 volt negative ground and it already has a new coil from Napa on it. With new ballest resistor. The new petronix red wire is wired past the ballest resistor. So there is no resistance from it. The black wire is wired right to the coil. I have sent away for a coil from petronixs think it on of those 3 ohm 40000 watt ones. It was like 60$. 

I have check and re checked 3 or 4 times to make sure everything is the way it is supposed to be. 

I'm guessing no one knows what the black plastic o ring that comes with kit is for. I have looked at instructions and can't figure it out. 

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31 minutes ago, greg g said:

Call pertronix.

Dump the Pertronix, your symptoms are classic Pertronix issues.  Go back to points and return that junk.  Seen it MANY times.  In fact, there is a thread with similar popping and no power hot issues going on in the car forum that was fixed by removing the Pertronix.

Adam

 

Edited by Adam H P15 D30
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I pissed around with it for about 2 hrs. Everything is running fine now. I think. I just had to fine tune it to the point I was turning it with bottom bolt a millimeter at a time then loosening the bolt on the side and getting it back to 0. then I played with the fuel and the idle for a while and everything seems to be fine. it is set for 2 degrees advanced. Still think the valves need doing because it is ticking. but got it so exhaust doesn't sound like it is not timed and runs smoother. it no longer has a pop in the carb. Took for a few km drive. Will go for longer later. It is hot right now and it has no air conditioning lol. 

 

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