Best way to get a title

[John32369]

Ok, I have a 48 Dodge business coupe that was purchased basically as a body from the previous owner.  He had bought it on a s10 frame and wag going to rat rod it and put it on a Dakota frame and running works.  He claims to have since gotten a frame for a business coupe for it with a 270 poly-head motor and a fluid dive transmission.  I have a 48 club coupe with a title and complete running works that I was going to strip the body off of and put the business coupes body on and use the running works to make i more original.  My question is, what would require the title?  The body with the serial number?  The running works from the club coupe? Which one?

[Plymouthy Adams]

ok, I know I need an eye test now, thought it read "get a little"

[pflaming]

PA, and you also failed the spelling test, and I was of the opinion that you had outgrown the lisp!

[Plymouthy Adams]

you make no sense, what the heck lisp are you referring too, even if we disregard the fact there is no spelling error in the above reply

Edited July 16, 2017 by Plymouthy Adams

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, John32369 said:

Ok, I have a 48 Dodge business coupe that was purchased basically as a body from the previous owner.  He had bought it on a s10 frame and wag going to rat rod it and put it on a Dakota frame and running works.  He claims to have since gotten a frame for a business coupe for it with a 270 poly-head motor and a fluid dive transmission.  I have a 48 club coupe with a title and complete running works that I was going to strip the body off of and put the business coupes body on and use the running works to make i more original.  My question is, what would require the title?  The body with the serial number?  The running works from the club coupe? Which one?

Since you live in NC,basically,you are screwed if you dump any more money in this project. What will happen is when you register it with either title,the DMV will send out a DMV inspector to your house to search your chassis,and the car body for numbers that match those on the title. Once he sees what has been done,he will destroy any title you have on record related to that car,and refuse to issue you  a title. I have a friend right now who dumped a few thousand in rebuilding a 48 Dodge truck I sold him that had a clear Va title and on that Virginia title there was a motor serial number matching the serial number on the actual engine. The DMV auto-theft inspector,who he knows personally because he has a commercial garage and does state inspections,told him the engine serial number came back from a different year,and refused to issue him a title and kept and destroyed the clear Va title that came with the truck. They do that so you can't take it out of state to sell it. Yeah,he got to drive the truck for a year before his license plates expired,but the DMV refused to renew his tags.

The only way I know  to get around this is to  buy a rolling chassis with  a body on it that has the body serial number and the chassis serial number matching those on the title. Have that car inspected by the DMV inspector  and buy a set of tags for it. That way you have it on record that the car has been inspected for bad numbers,and has passed the inspection and have new tags and a new title on file. THEN you can start with the frame clips/frame replacements,etc,etc,etc. Make sure you keep your receipts for materials and parts,and call the DMV inspector to come and inspect it again. He will do it and either approve a new NC title for you with the a clear NC title as a 48 Dodge (for example),or a 48 Dodge with a unique NC DMV VIN number.

 

MY 37 Dodge 1 ton pu is sitting on a modern 4x4 chassis with the modern engine and suspension,but is titled as a 1937 Dodge with a NC State VIN number. In this case,a decal put inside the pillar of the door. To get this done you MUST have a clear title for the donor car that gave up the chassis,as well as a clear title in your name for the 48 Dodge .

 

Don't make the mistake of thinking you can win an argument with these guys. You can't. If you have all your ducks in a row you won't have any problems with them,but if just ONE thing is wrong,game over.

You might also want to be wary of Alabama titles in NC. Seems like there was a lot of weird stuff going on with Alabama titles 10 years or so ago.

Best thing for you to do is contact the guys in some hot rod club near you and get advise from them. They will know what is current and what can be done to make everything go through smoother.

[John32369]

How about a salvage or a bonded title?

Edited July 16, 2017 by John32369

[Flatie46]

2 hours ago, John32369 said:

Ok, I have a 48 Dodge business coupe that was purchased basically as a body from the previous owner.  He had bought it on a s10 frame and wag going to rat rod it and put it on a Dakota frame and running works.  He claims to have since gotten a frame for a business coupe for it with a 270 poly-head motor and a fluid dive transmission.  I have a 48 club coupe with a title and complete running works that I was going to strip the body off of and put the business coupes body on and use the running works to make i more original.  My question is, what would require the title?  The body with the serial number?  The running works from the club coupe? Which one?

If you lived in TN I would  say get your 1/8th inch drill bit out and do a tad bit of fab work, and don't mention it to anyone. I would be willing to bet nobody at the DMV knows the difference between a business coupe and a club coupe or wouldn't care. But you live in NC and apparently they do things differently there.     I would go to the DMV and talk to them, see what they say. Tell them your situation and see what they recommend, I'm sure your not the first one to run into this and wont be the last. Some states want the tax and tag revinue some  look at things differently.

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, John32369 said:

How about a salvage or a bonded title?

I have heard of salvage titles,but know nothing about them.

I had to post a bond for 3 years before I got the title to my 37 Dodge truck. I got it inspected and evaluated by 3 different garages as to it's possible value,and then had to go to the insurance company where I insured my cars and buy the bond from them. I can't remember at this late date how much it cost me,but it wasn't  very much.

While waiting I did get a registration and was able to buy insurance and tags,and drive it. I just wasn't able to legally sell it because I had no title. No big deal in my case because I've had it for another 3 or 4 years since then and have never tried to sell it.

I did have a 19 year old over here doing yard work today and he offered me $100 for the 37 Dodgeit,though.  He's into mud racing and monster trucks. After all,"it's a old truck and not worth much." I somehow managed to turn that easy money down.

A couple of years ago when I had my P-15 on the road and the paint was a lot fresher

I had a guy knock on my door one day and offer to haul it off to the crusher for me,and wouldn't even charge me anything for the service! There is was,sitting in the yard with current plates on it and I was driving it pretty much every day,and he actually thought I'd give it to him so he could take it to the crusher and get $4 per hundred lbs for it.

I think the most insulting thing was he was probably driving the last K-Car that was still on the road,and was thinking my P-15 was junk.

 

Edited July 16, 2017 by knuckleharley

[John32369]

Where are all the VIN numbers on a 48 dodge?

[medium_jon]

5 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

he was probably driving the last K-Car that was still on the road

Now that is a sad individual. Do you think that in 50 years people will be trying to restore those? 

[knuckleharley]

4 hours ago, John32369 said:

Where are all the VIN numbers on a 48 dodge?

I don't know about them all,but there is a serial number tag inside a door jamb. Easy to recognize because it has the words "Serial No" on it.

There is also a tag on the firewall,and there is a serial number on the engine. In NC,if the engine is missing or the serial number on the engine in the car is different than the serial number on the title,you are screwed. I am not sure how they handle a car with no engine because I have never had to deal with that.

The truth is the DMV inspectors seem to have a lot of leeway to do what they want,or not to do what they don't want to do. Just because they CAN do something doesn't mean they will do it,or that they have to do it.

Then there are old cars that got titles before these new insane laws went into effect. Like my P-15,for example. It has a Camaro frame clip,engine,transmission,and rear end. IF this were being done now it would be wise to register it in your name and get a title and plates BEFORE you start the modifications,and then still have the original parts removed from the car on site when the DMV inspector comes around to view the changes.

A good rule of thumb is to take nothing for granted,and try to have every aspect of the process covered as well as possible. If everything is in order when the DMV inspector comes by the first time,everything is going to be peachy from then on out. If he discovers a bunch of irregularities the first time he shows up at your house,things are never going to be pleasant for you when he shows up in the future. I have had the same guy come to my house at least a half-dozen times over the last few years,and I try to always have EVERYTHING in order that I can think of the day before he is scheduled to show up. If this means degreasing a block or firewall so he can see the numbers,I degrease the block or firewall. If I even suspect there might be the tiniest question about something,I have the factory manuals on hand with the relevant pages bookmarked that show exceptions to the general rule.

Also,NEVER give a DMV inspector your original title unless you have a notarized copy stored away ,"just in case". Titles they don't like for some reason have a way of getting "lost".

If he says he needs the title to do the paperwork,you have no choice but to give it to him. If you have a notarized duplicate and your title gets lost,you can get a new one. I am not saying this will happen. I am saying it is wise to cover yourself from unexpected accidents.

BTW,for those of you who don't know,all this came about because the head of the DMV one governor appointed to that job was caught issuing bogus paperwork for stuff like AC Cobras to a dealer in Charlotte that was a pal of his. IIRC,he and the Charlotte dealer both ended up in prison,and the rest of us are still paying the price for their frauds. This was  a few governors ago,and chances are it will remain this way forever because all the extra DMV inspectors have already been hired and have offices and funding,and no government program with career employees,some of whom at the top will have been appointed,ever goes away.

 

[knuckleharley]

33 minutes ago, medium_jon said:

Now that is a sad individual. Do you think that in 50 years people will be trying to restore those? 

Sure. For historical reasons to put in museums,if nothing else. It might be an exaggeration to say the K-Car saved Chrysler from bankruptcy,but not much of one.

Although not as extreme,the same case can be made for the Taurus and Ford,although the Taurus was a MUCH nicer car than the K-Car. Seems like millions of them were made. At one time it seemed like at least 10 percent of the cars you saw on the road were Tauruses. Now,like the K-Car,they are as rare as rooster lips.

There are no junkyards today like there used to be. The instant something is taken off the road it gets stripped,crushed,or both.

I rode to the crusher once with a friend that has a tow service and spotted  a virtually rust-free turquoise and white 1960 Chevy Impala 2dr ht parked there that was so complete it still had the hubcaps on it. Original paint with only traces of surface rust,and no dents at all. Had a 348 with Powerglide in it. It was a car you could have gotten running that was presentable enough as is to have been driven. Tried to buy it and the yard owner flat refused to sell it or a single part off of it. I don't know if it was true or not,but was told that he got an additional 700 bucks above scrap cost from the government for crushing a non-EPA compliant car or truck with a title,and once one entered his books it had to be crushed. He also had a nice 49 Dodge in there that had perfect taillights and housings on it,and I couldn't even get him to sell them to me for my 49 Dodge.

At least this is what I was told by a guy that claimed to be the yard owner. For all I know he was just a AHole that managed the yard and liked to destroy things. Either way I wasn't going to be able to buy anything.

Edited July 16, 2017 by knuckleharley

[medium_jon]

12 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

There are no junkyards today like there used to be.

 

Sad. 

[knuckleharley]

35 minutes ago, medium_jon said:

Now that is a sad individual. 

BTW,he was a sad individual. A lifelong drunk that was in his 60's then,he was living in a small travel trailer and working as a security guard. Then the price of scrap skyrocketed to something like 10 bucks per hundred lbs,and he,like everyone else,was running around trying to score on all the free scrap they could get their hands on. I actually had two engines and transmissions I had pulled stolen out of my yard. People with half-ton pu's were mounting booms in the beds of their trucks so they could back up and load stuff like engines and transmissions,and then head directly to the scrap yard with them. Scrappers were reporting people to the county for zoning code violations that had cars or trucks with no plates parked in their yards,so they could get to tow them away after the county gave the owner a deadline to have them removed. Scrap once got up to $12.50 per hundred,and things were really going crazy then. I had a old rust-bucket 62 Ford F-500 wrecker I used to drive that ran good and worked good that I had been trying to sell for 750 bucks for a couple of years,and the most anyone offered me was 400 bucks. IIRC,I got a little over 1100 out of it from the crusher guy,and he came and got it so I didn't even have to worry about hauling it to him.

That was a fun wrecker. Looked so rough everyone that saw it assumed you were a local,and wave at you. It was a lot better than it looked,though. I once took it about 375 miles from home pulling a backhoe trailer to bring back a truck. Never  had it refuse to start.

[MackTheFinger]

So the DMV inspectors actually come to your house?? Remind me to never move to North Carolina! 

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, MackTheFinger said:

So the DMV inspectors actually come to your house?? Remind me to never move to North Carolina! 

Yes. They will call you and tell you when they will be there,and if you are not there so they can inspect your car,your title process is delayed until you do meet him and allow him to inspect your car. I may be wrong,but the way I understand it is that the person applying for a new title in their name has to be there,not the wife,brother,etc,etc,etc.

[MackTheFinger]

So does this happen with ANY vehicle title transfer, even if it's something like a 2003 Ford pickup? The way it works here is that if you buy any in-state vehicle with a good, legal, existing title the previous owner and the buyer sign in their respective places and the new owner can take the title to the local DMV and send off for a new title in their name or if they want tags they take it to a vehicle inspection station, i.e. your local garage, tire shop, etc. Out of state vehicles have to have what's called an OD/ID done by either a state licensed inspection station, my favorite; or the highway patrol whom I would just as soon never see. They check for odometer discrepancies and vin's but nobody cares whether an engine has been changed. I mean, how many 75 year old vehicles are running on their original engine, anyway? What if someone buys a long block from AutoZone for his later model car? It just sounds messed up to me..

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, MackTheFinger said:

So does this happen with ANY vehicle title transfer, even if it's something like a 2003 Ford pickup?

 

Unless they have changed the law recently,any vehicle coming in from out of state that does not have a NC title that is 25  years old  or older MUST be inspected by a DMV auto theft inspector. You go to your local license plate bureau to buy new tags and apply for a NC title in your name,and that is when they are notified. The DMV inspector that has the responsibility for cases in the area where you live contacts you and tells you when he is going to be in your area doing inspections,and you either agree to meet him then or the next time he is in the area. You have a year. If your car hasn't been physically inspected for a numbers and title match by the time that year has ended,you don't get to buy new plates until it is inspected.

Even if you need a title with a new VIN number and have to wait 3 years to get it,you are still able to buy new tags for the 3 years it is under bond. Once the 3 years are up if no one has contested your ownership of the vehicle,you get the new NC VIN number and a legal title.

There may be more conditions that have to be met if the vehicle is a modern vehicle that requires emission equipment inspections and tests. I have never tried to title anything that modern,so I am just guessing on this one.

They check for odometer discrepancies and vin's but nobody cares whether an engine has been changed. I mean, how many 75 year old vehicles are running on their original engine, anyway?.

The NC State DMV and their inspectors,and the yahoos with law degrees and no knowledge of the real world that write the regulations. The whole system is a nightmare. For example,old Fords didn't have engine numbers,but Mopars did. Bring in a 40 Ford from out of state that has a V-8 OHV Chevrolet engine,and nobody cares. Bring in a old Mopar that did have a engine number when new,and that out of state title had better  be updated if it has a modern engine. Even one with no serial number. I am GUESSING what happens in that case is the block on the title that has a spot for the engine number serial number is just left blank. Still,this obviously places a burden on Mopar buyers that isn't shared by Ford buyers.

I guess what we need is for a cross-eyed,cross-dressing part-time  transsexual vegan that is blind in one eye and part black,part Eskimo,and left-handed  file a discrimination suit against the state of NC to have this dropped. Otherwise we are destined to live with it until they eventually outlaw private car ownership.

 

 

[Dartgame]

I had a similar but better ending to my registration process. My car had a Virginia title which used the engine number as the VIN. Illinois secretary of state (lets call it dmv), sent me valid plates but with held my title stating the car needed to be inspected by local police for VIN verification. I did that, and had the body number re-assigned as the VIN which is correct. Ok I get it. BUT the DMV rejected this and stated I needed to take the car for inspection to one of their offices. Fortunately there is one not far from home. The officer there got pissed when he read the note from the DMV office. He verified the info just as the police did and I finally got the clear title 6 weeks later. What a bunch of idiots. I had to waste my time to satisfy their overbearing process, which when adhered to was rejected, but finally accepted. I think all they wanted to do was find fault and charge me extra to get this situation sorted out. At least that did not happen...

[Plymouthy Adams]

3 minutes ago, Dartgame said:

I had a similar but better ending to my registration process. My car had a Virginia title which used the engine number as the VIN. Illinois secretary of state (lets call it dmv), sent me valid plates but with held my title stating the car needed to be inspected by local police for VIN verification. I did that, and had the body number re-assigned as the VIN which is correct. Ok I get it. BUT the DMV rejected this and stated I needed to take the car for inspection to one of their offices. Fortunately there is one not far from home. The officer there got pissed when he read the note from the DMV office. He verified the info just as the police did and I finally got the clear title 6 weeks later. What a bunch of idiots. I had to waste my time to satisfy their overbearing process, which when adhered to was rejected, but finally accepted. I think all they wanted to do was find fault and charge me extra to get this situation sorted out. At least that did not happen...

while a runaround, luckily the local inspection officer was up to speed and was able to clear the matter on JUST ONE VISIT

[Flatie46]

I guess we're very fortunate here. The only time they inspect a vehicle is if it has a reconstructed or rebuilt title. Or in one case I had a friend with a pile of model A parts ( wasn't quite a whole car) he wanted to get a title for. Couldn't find numbers on it anywhere. So they had him get a highway patrol officer inspect it before they issued a new number. He said the cop came and give it a quick glance, signed his paper and left. I haven't heard Of this being applied to an antique vehicle just the late model wrecks. If a vehicle is over 10yrs old they they much split hairs on the title issues. 

   If its 25yrs old Or older they seem to have even less interest. They don't record mileage ( they dont do that on an after 5years I think), there's no smog laws or any safety checks. I've titled several antique cars, trucks and motorcycles over the years. Never asked me any questions just took my money and said have a nice day.

 

[busycoupe]

I moved to NC in 2011 and brought my 1948 Dodge coupe with me.  It was titled in Mass. with the serial number from the door frame.  The engine was a rebuilt P23 engine that did not match the number on the frame.  When I registered the car in NC I brought it to the DMV office and had the officer inspect it in the parking lot.  He was a nice young guy and looked the car over, took pictures of the I.d. plate on the door, and the body tag on the firewall.  He didn't look for or check any other numbers.  He did run the serial number to see if it was listed as stolen, and he checked that the serial number was in he correct range of numbers for 1948.  That was it, quick and painless.   Perhaps your treatment depends on who is on duty that day.  

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, busycoupe said:

I moved to NC in 2011 and brought my 1948 Dodge coupe with me.  It was titled in Mass. with the serial number from the door frame.  The engine was a rebuilt P23 engine that did not match the number on the frame.  When I registered the car in NC I brought it to the DMV office and had the officer inspect it in the parking lot.  He was a nice young guy and looked the car over, took pictures of the I.d. plate on the door, and the body tag on the firewall.  He didn't look for or check any other numbers.  He did run the serial number to see if it was listed as stolen, and he checked that the serial number was in he correct range of numbers for 1948.  That was it, quick and painless.   Perhaps your treatment depends on who is on duty that day.  

I suspect your experience had more to do with you already owning the car and it already having a clear title in your name when you moved here. They would have a hell of a time charging you with stealing a car or altering a VIN number when you were in another state. All they do in that case is run a quick computer check to verify it was registered and/or titled in your previous state,and you are good to go.

As for me,none of the 4 times I have been through this now had anything at all to who was on duty at the DMV office that day. I took the title to my local DMV,paid to have it changed to my name with a new NC title,paid the property taxes and for the license tags,and went home and put them on the car.

When the title process hit Raleigh it was noted there that a car with a title from another state was entering the system as a purchase from a NC resident from a resident of another state. The state DMV office contacted the DMV vehicle theft inspector that operates in my region,and gave him my name,address,phone number,make and model car,VIN number,etc,etc,etc,and he called me on the phone to set up a meeting so he could inspect the car for bogus numbers. It is an automatic process and nobody in Raleigh knows me from the man in the moon. The DMV inspector does know me and knew me before the first visit. He likes old cars,and sometimes stops to socialize if he is in the area and has the time. Trust me,it is nothing personal. I even know his father and where his father lives. He and I are friendly,if not exactly good friends.

Still,the man was hired to do the job,and he WILL do the job he is paid to do regardless of if he likes someone,hates them,or knows nothing about them. He doesn't make the rules,he just follows them. There is nothing at all personal about it.

[plyroadking]

11 hours ago, MackTheFinger said:

So the DMV inspectors actually come to your house?? Remind me to never move to North Carolina! 

I've done 3 bonded titles here in iowa, somehow the guy that comes out and verifies the VIN has been able to put the tarp back exactly like I had it and on one occasion actually had a key or garage door opener to get into the garage........

[BigDaddyO]

"I have a 48 club coupe with a title and complete running works"

Why not get tags for this one then switch the bodies and don't tell no one.