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Mopar Flatheads On Mountain Highways


55 Fargo

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Hey all, had to take a fast trip from Winnipeg Mb, to Smithers BC , which is in the Canadian Rockies, north of Vancouver BC and Seattle Washington.

Absolutely beautiful country, scenic is an understatement, many 6-8 % grades, singles lane highway with passing lanes every so often.

Tons of logging trucks, semis  and RVs.

I go to thinking cruising at about 65 mph, what would this be like in a flathead powered car or truck, you certainly would want top notch brakes tires an suspension, as well as appropriate gearing.

The other thing I was considering is the other drivers, as through Jasper and on to Prince George BC traffic is very heavy this time of the year.

Alberta drivers were the worst offenders, sorry you Alberta guys, but your folks were driving like maniacs, many blind curves, there speed, manners and passing was unbelievable.

So how many of you drive busy mountain roads on a routine basis with a Chrysler flathead powered car or truck?

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Edited by 55 Fargo Spitfire
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I have a 3:73 behind my 218 in my truck. 6000 feet elevation is only 50 minutes from home where the elevation is 300'. I never shift out of high on that pull. Engine works but never lugs down and does not heat up.  

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Do you have a lot of high speed traffic n a single lane highways?

Hills with multi lanes are a breeze compared to a busy roadway like the Yellowhead 16 through Jasper National Park, a lot of traffic this time of the year.

Signs, and chain up areas all over too, winter tires and chains for heavy vehicles mandatory from October 1 to April 30th every year, fines for not doing so...

I don't doubt my truck could handle it, its other drivers on some of these roads that could be a challenge, as well as drum brakes I suppose...

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58 minutes ago, pflaming said:

I have a 3:73 behind my 218 in my truck. 6000 feet elevation is only 50 minutes from home where the elevation is 300'. I never shift out of high on that pull. Engine works but never lugs down and does not heat up.  

But can  you maintain the speed limit while climbing the grades?

People used to do that on a daily basis back in the 1930's,driving Model A 1 ton trucks with lever-action mechanical brakes and 36 or so HP. I have no idea how any of them survived,given the quality of the roads back then and all the sharp curves and steep grades,but they did.

Edited by knuckleharley
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I have driven some hills in the Catskills, the Adirondacks, and Vermont,Virginia, and New Hampshire.  Not the elevations like the west, but grades may actually steeper in places.  Always more confidant going up,than descending.  Like mentioned I have never had to down shift while climbing except as dictated by slower traffic.  Going down,I have used second gear on a few occasions.  I posted a video on the Daily Motion site about three years back of a three mile or so uphill chase in the Catskills trying to run down a Toyota pickup truck.  Yes,I caught him before the top.  That clip might stii be there, but I have forgotten what username I used.Never gone above 190 while climbing comes right back to 170 on the level.

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I live in British Columbia Canada. I drive our cross-country  #1 Hwy often. I am on the major route between Vancouver BC, and Calgary or Edmonton, Alberta. I can attest to the drivers from Alberta. They fit right in with the worst I have seen in my area. There are many local bad drivers too. HWY 1 is a nightmare this time of year and I stay off it as much as possible. Tailgating, speeding, passing on blind corners, stuck behind slow RV's. Drivers get irritated and impatient. There's no shortage of road rage. No different than many other cities I am sure. There are way too many wasted lives on the Hiways around here every year  

Back to the original comment about the flat 6 on hilly terrain. My '53 L265 gets a workout every time I leave the house. I descend and climb about a 800 - 900 ft hill whenever I take out the car. 

My first comment is about hi/low range. Is there a way to keep the fluid torque drive in 3rd while going down a steep hill? I have not been able to do so. As soon as I let of the throttle and coast down a hill, it shifts to 4th. Then I have to use the brakes to keep speed down. I'd rather have some power train braking to assist. If I down the hill in low range, 1st and 2nd, it will shift to second. Sure it will hold me back, but at max speed of 25 mph. Then I get impatient drivers behind me.  So it seems my options are too fast or too slow. Just curios as it bothers me little. It's just one of the  features of my old car. 

At the very bottom of this hill is a 4 way stop sign. So coming up, I get no momentum. I start in 3rd and leave it in 3rd all the way up. I can push it to 35 or 40 mph in 3rd, but tend to just go steady-eddie at 30 mph in 3rd. 4th she lugs down pretty good. The engine feels happier in 3rd coming up this darn hill.

I have a 180 thermostat. Temps rise a little between stop lights in town. On the flats. Quickly cooling again as I speed up and pull more air through the rad.

Same situation climbing the local hill home. It gets warm near the top, but begins to drop not long after the road levels out.  

I think hiway speeds would help the L6 with momentum before climbing hills. Slim chance of staying the speed limit I'd predict. My car has not been pushed under those conditions yet. It's new to me and I am still working out any reliability issues. I just keep punishing the car here during my local drives on the hills close to home. 

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Oh man I used to have a friend with a52 DeSoto who did something to hold third for "a sporting driving style".  He would start off in low range shift to high range then move the selector back to low range the governor wouldn't allow the shift down shift as it was in an over speed to allow the shift,and because of the lever position fourth was out of the equation.  However you are dealing with a 50 year old memory of what someone else was doing while being observed from the back seat, and not worried if he blew up his car. May be some one with more knowledge of the m6 can comment if this would work and or if it would cause damage.

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Albertans are generally courteous to visitors from out of province ...:)

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Edited by T120
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1 hour ago, T120 said:

Albertans are generally courteous to visitors from out of province ...:)

5966a66d8807b_Itisalldownhillfromhere.....thumb.jpg.dfa0f1f7cb5927a7a580dc511140fb4c.jpg

I had no trouble in Alberta and/or Edmonton freeways, it was there speeding and passing on single lane mountain highways, taking a lot of risky chances.

There were plenty of passing lanes for those who want to get by...

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Well about all I can say in response, Fred , is that in recent years there was an influx of workers from other areas seeking employment  in Alberta because of our "booming" economy. Some of the Alberta licence plates on vehicles now seen on the highways are some of those workers either heading to / or coming from visiting places perhaps they should have never left...:mellow:    

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I have driven my flathead powered cars over  lots of mountainous routes in BC and also the Highway  to the Sun in Montana  and Highway 2 over Snoqualmie Pass in Washington.

Flathead is the name given to an area of Montana.   I can't remember what the grades were but 40 miles of construction between Kalispel and Libby got my undivided attention in 1990.

No problems with power or speed but I am respectful of the brakes.    The Duffy Lake Road in BC was a challenge where second gear overdrive worked well and Overdrive locked out on the downhills.   A long steady climb near Merritt BC on a 100 degree day was accomplished at 45 mph overdrive locked out to keep the temperature within limits. No problem with boiling or restarting though.  All these trips over the years in 50, 51 and 52 Plymouths (and Canadian Dodges.)    Lake Tahoe presented no problems to my 50 Plymouth however it was its previous owner who took it there.  

I will, for personal safety reasons, make no public comments about out of state (province) drivers.   I can get lost even with a map so I need all the goodwill I can muster.

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Going to the sun road - a photo taken on the way up...

5966c979c82e5_Goingtothesunroad....thumb.jpg.7f93ef07eaa5c43617cdd5ab068b054d.jpg 

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You can electrically  keep the trans in 3rdhigh range but it will do no good as it will just free wheel when coasting. Same in low range 1st gear.

I've never had an issue coasting with my chryslers in 4th gear. Though mine are eight cylinder cars.

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2 minutes ago, dpollo said:

What a great picture !  Nice mountains too.

I made this trip on my own with the old Dodge - no problem. Along with my wife, several years earlier we did the same trip, albeit in a newer vehicle and she said,

" never again"... :)

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1 hour ago, T120 said:

Well about all I can say in response, Fred , is that in recent years there was an influx of workers from other areas seeking employment  in Alberta because of our "booming" economy. Some of the Alberta licence plates on vehicles now seen on the highways are some of those workers either heading to / or coming from visiting places perhaps they should have never left...:mellow:    

Its all good Ralph,  am not slamming the area, just a lot of drivers go too fast for the types of roads and condtions.

I really think speeds over 70 mph on the Yellowhead from Jasper to Mount Robson is a bit over the top.

There was a driver in a Porsche, not going to tell you the state  or province he hales from, he had the roof  bin on top, just passing and all over the road, using the oncoming traffics passing lane, he was a real A$$.

Your pic looks great, so yeas you guys have assured me this is a doable venture in our flathead powered cars and trucks.

I invite all of you guys, Dave, Reg, Paul and Bob, post some mountain pics with the cars .....

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I used to drive my 1953 Plymouth Savoy wagon across the cascade mountain rage all the time (Stevens and Snoqualmie pass all the way to Spokane swap meets and to Walla Walla to part out Pilot house dodge trucks.

The wagon had a 4.3 rear end and OD. Always drove fine at 65 loaded too!

I Also drove BIG RED when I bought it in 1984 over in eastern Oregon all the way back to Seattle.... about 400 miles!

That was quite the drive @ 45-50 MPH sometimes up to 60. Never had driven a big truck like that. A tense drive to say the least. It ran flawlessly except the temp was running about 200! It was summer and hot about 90 degree's.

I'd drive for awhile ... let it cool abit then drive more.

Got it home to find out the temp needle was bent towards the hot side by about 15 degree's.!:D

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Love the stories and experiences guys.

I did not see any real vintage Mopar or any other vehicles on the road, yes saw about a 70 or 71 442 Cutlass, and some 70s trucks with slide in campers, but that's it.

I saw a lot of old Dodge or Fargo trucks dotting farm yards across Saskatchewan and Alberta, there is still lots out there, and this was on a busy highway, must be lots off the beaten path too.

I saw an old VW Bus and a bug on the Yellowhead just west of Edmonton, where the highway is still multi lane and very busy..

Early morning logging trucks from Vanderhoof BC to Smithers BC were many, and they would come off logging roads, in a flash, but most of those roads had warning signs prior, interesting thing too, my exterior ambient temp gauge displayed 1c or 34f at one point, way up on the mountains, hard to believe it was July 10th....

Just a side note, the Kamloops, Williams Lake, and other areas in the interior of BC have many many forest fires out of control, after flying over them to Vancouver from Smithers on Monday afternoon, I really feel bad for the people and this area, many acres of timber and wildlife habitat will be destroyed...its very dry and hot right now in this area

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Here is my '53 among the forest fires here in BC this week. I took this pic on Sunday evening. We have lots of hills, you just can't see them in the pic through all the smoke. You can also see the elevation gain I was talking about in my earlier post above. There is a river in the valley in this pic. Up and down that elevation every time I head out in the Windsor.

 

My apologies for generalizing about Alberta drivers. I did say we have plenty of bad ones locally too.  I get grumpy from too many trips down the hi-way doing the speed limit. Then being passed by someone at a much higher speed. Being local I know these roads very well. The rise in elevation, the drop in temperatures, the sudden hail, rain, and snow that can and does hit mountain passes every month of the year, is not understood by many.  Carnage ensues all the time. 

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Edited by keithb7
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2 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

How about some of you other guys on the west coast of the US, Reg Evans drives his "old Yellar" up and down the mountains with a 250 engine and later 3.0 geared diff....

Great pics, Guys......

Yup, and up and over Donnor Summit (7129' I think) to Reno from where I live at 2200'

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  • 3 months later...

Been a while since I've had my old Plymouth in higher mountains. But I've had it over Donner Pass a couple of time. In and out of Yosemite. And into the more local mountains at elevations above 8000 feet.

Looking back at other comments on this thread I am reminded that my father refused to buy a car with an automatic back in that era because of the lack of engine braking. He was afraid of "burning out the brakes" on long down grades if he couldn't rely on the engine to help keep the speed under control. Disc brakes are a lot more forgiving on a long downgrade than drums.

That was brought home to me on a tour I participated in shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area. The tour headed down a steep, narrow, winding road on the back side of Mount Hamilton and the car behind me was a 1950s DeSoto with an automatic transmission. He had some significant problems with speed control and overheating brakes. Not a fun car to be directly in front of.

Now that I'm back in Southern California the nearest long mountain grade is probably Ortega Highway going over the hills (only a few thousand feet high) between the coast and Lake Elsinore. But I don't recall a good place to pull over for a photo that really captures the feel. The section between Lake Elsinore and the top has great views but with the traffic and limited turn outs I am more interested in focusing on driving the old car their rather than looking for photo ops. Definitely a place you want to be sure your freewheeling transmission is in the locked out position.

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