Jump to content

Took the dive. Hope I don't regret it.


40desoto

Recommended Posts

I picked up a 265 chrystler Spitfire Engine virtually free back in December. The previous owner stated that it was recently rebuilt and that he just couldn't get it to idle well. He had rebuilt the carburetor and the  ignition system to no avail.  Doing the compression test revealed that 3 adjacent cylinders had low compression. After removing the head it was determined that the deck was warped and that I had a minor crack on one  exhaust valve seat. 

A member through another forum stated that by the pictures I posted the other valve seats would need to be replaced as well because there was signed of recession. All  of the  exhaust valves has mushroomed heads, and a few valve guides seemed to have a bit of play while other where perfectly snug to the valve.

At this point I decided to take it to the machine shop to get the entire valve train replaced including all new valve seats........ this is when I start going down the rabbits hole.

the shop owner checks the deck and it's not even then persuades me into having him take it all apart, and have the entire block magnafluxed.  The charge will be $150 to do so and provide advise on how to proceed thereafter.  

I swore I was going to fix the one cracked valve seat, lap the valves, resurface the head, and zip it all back up and do the compression test and hope that it all worked fine.

The question I have is since it looks like I'm going down the path of a complete rebuild, how significant are the quality of parts between companies like Bernbaum, Kanter or the local to me company of Egge. All swear that Egge is much better quality  but I'm wondering how much better? 

Also, if I decide to pay the shop the $150 fee and bring everything back home.  What would be the recommended method to proceed?  Or do I simply have limited options and slid down that rabbits hole too deep to climb back out.  

My apologies if these questions are no brainers just curious to see other members point of view on this.

Another point, I will be installing an older Edmunds Aluminum head and an AOK triple intake.  Someone recommended that since I will be running with a higher compression it's highly advised that I make sure the bottom end is it top shape

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The term "rebuilt" means different things to different people, doesn't it? :) If you're committed to running that motor you don't have many options other than to proceed with a real rebuild, starting with having the block, head, crankshaft, rods, and everything else thoroughly checked and brought back into spec by a reputable machine shop. It's up to your confidence in your abilities on whether you do the re-assembly. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Egge now has an online ordering system and the prices are not too much different than that of Kanter and Bergmans.  The shop owner stated that he would only recommend to Egge.  So thats a good thing. 

Well see what he quotes me for all the machine work after the magnaflux work.  Crossing my fingers.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said:

The term "rebuilt" means different things to different people, doesn't it? :) If you're committed to running that motor you don't have many options other than to proceed with a real rebuild, starting with having the block, head, crankshaft, rods, and everything else thoroughly checked and brought back into spec by a reputable machine shop. It's up to your confidence in your abilities on whether you do the re-assembly. 

"Rebuilt" is about like the word "Restored" - I've learned to not take too much stock in either of those words without putting my eyes on the item in question.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only regret after a proper and thorough rebuild, would be selling the car.  If you are planning to keep the vehicle that the engine goes in, do it right. If this is a pleasure car, driven for fun, not a daily commuter, it'll probably outlive you.  

Life is often measured by great memories. Decades from now you won't remember the $500 you saved today. You will remember all the great times you had in your reliable, fun, vintage car. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keith, you'd be a great salesman! That's  the same thing the guy at the shop told me.  I hear you and agree with you, unfortunately I have many other hobbies. One of my motivators to advance in whichever field I've made my living inwas to have hobbies to relieve the day to day stress.

thanks for your input

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get it 40desoto. I too have other hobbies. My problem is I have so much that I want to do in life. When I get into a hobby, I go all in. Pouring tons of time and energy into it as it brings me so much pleasure. Right now wrenching on my old car is really motivating to me. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, 40desoto said:

....  Someone recommended that since I will be running with a higher compression it's highly advised that I make sure the bottom end is it top shape

 

 

ALWAYS a good idea,regardless of the compression ratio. Rods sticking out from the side of your block are never a good thing. You can get away with driving one that  burns a lot of oil,but you can't afford to take a chance on driving one with low oil pressure and a knock.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are many very usable engines for pennies on the dollar. I paid $50 for one, got one free, bought a parts car with an  engine for $350. Don't panic. Google the car years your  engine was in, put in $100 min and $900 maximum and note what parts cars are available for you. You will be amazed.  On which car are you working?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding the differences between the 3 companies mentioned both Kanter and Bernbaums are retailers, nothing against them as far as that goes but Egge are actually the manufacturers so in some respects dealing with them is like talking to the organ grinder rather than talking to the monkey...........you will be paying in dollars rather than bananas so I'd go with Egge which is what your machine shop guy recommends.........also if you feel confident in your machine shop then get him to assemble the long block, I would assume then that he would then offer some sort of warranty on both his machining and assembly skills..........andyd   

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, pflaming said:

There are many very usable engines for pennies on the dollar. I paid $50 for one, got one free, bought a parts car with an  engine for $350. Don't panic. Google the car years your  engine was in, put in $100 min and $900 maximum and note what parts cars are available for you. You will be amazed.  On which car are you working?

I agree, I have 3 laying around now.  

I also have a 1950 251ci long block, a 236 long block that came in my 1940 desoto (unstamped ) and a 23' block unknown ci.

the 265 Spitfire I picked up doesn't loom bad and didn't seem to  have a problem with the rings. 

Edited by 40desoto
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, pflaming said:

There are many very usable engines for pennies on the dollar. I paid $50 for one, got one free, bought a parts car with an  engine for $350. Don't panic. Google the car years your  engine was in, put in $100 min and $900 maximum and note what parts cars are available for you. You will be amazed.  On which car are you working?

The engine is from a 1954 Windsor and it'll be going into a 1940 Desoto Coupe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, 40desoto said:

I agree, I have 3 laying around now.  

I also have a 1950 251ci long block, a 236 long block that came in my 1940 desoto (unstamped ) and a 23' block unknown ci.

the 265 Spitfire I picked up doesn't loom bad and didn't seem to  have a problem with the rings. 

Aren't the 236, 251, and the 265 all the same block and bore except for the stroke? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My understanding is no. A quick measuring tape along the length of the head will show different lengths. My 53 is a 25" for example. There are shorter versions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

My understanding is no. A quick measuring tape along the length of the head will show different lengths. My 53 is a 25" for example. There are shorter versions.

Yes there are 2 common lengths but those CIs are all the 25" version. The 23" is 201 218 230

Link to comment
Share on other sites

   In my opinion, whichever path you take with this engine, magnafluxing should be the first step. If it reveals it’s got severe cracks in the block that render it unserviceable, that’ll be the determinant not to pour funds into it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 I'm starting the rebuilding process of a 230 and found many parts at good prices from Summit. I found a Sealed Power and Fel Pro catalog for vintage cars on the web. Got the part numbers of stuff needed. Googled the part numbers and Summit had most of it at reasonable prices. I've used Sealed Power parts in engines years ago with no  . Thought I'd toss that out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40plyguy thanks for the info. I wonder the difference in quality between part suppliers and if they're worth the extra effort researching different suppliers.  This is something that I'll be researching a bit to determine.  

Its great learning these details and fulfilling to learn how things work and the always impressed with the craftsmanship.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too am very impressed with the craftsmanship and technology in these cars. My 1953, when I'm working on it, I am mildly amused thinking about the stuff engineers had already figured out. The carb was pretty impressive today when I got in there. The semi-automatic fluid torque drive is neat. Changing the full flow oil filter? What a mess. Thankfully someone figured out a better way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

I too am very impressed with the craftsmanship and technology in these cars. My 1953, when I'm working on it, I am mildly amused thinking about the stuff engineers had already figured out. The carb was pretty impressive today when I got in there. The semi-automatic fluid torque drive is neat. Changing the full flow oil filter? What a mess. Thankfully someone figured out a better way.

I drilled,tapped, and installed a petcock to drain the oil from my full flow filter.

22.jpg

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, keithb7 said:

My understanding is no. A quick measuring tape along the length of the head will show different lengths. My 53 is a 25" for example. There are shorter versions.

I know for a fact that the 251 and the 265 share the same exact block.........it's the 236 I'm unsure of, maybe someone else knows.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Frank Elder said:

Aren't the 236, 251, and the 265 all the same block and bore except for the stroke? 

 

Almost, but the  265 will have a full flow oil filter as do some 251s     If you are going to run an aluminum head, the gasket surface has to be right on specs.If you have a good machinist, follow his advice.   Prices have escalated a lot, but your job will never get cheaper and a 265 in a 40 will be fun.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.

Terms of Use