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28 Chrysler 25" Engine tear down and rebuild


maok

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More of the Dulux build.

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Its alway the case, you win some and lose some.

 

The piston rings are all gapped to 0.015" out of the box, which I think should do well in this low powered engine.

 

However, the end gap/float of the crank is way off.  One corner is 0.0025" another is 0.0015" and the other two are less than 0.0015" and the crank is binding due probably because of this....:(  Will double check again tomorrow.

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This block and the block that came out the car are slightly different. Can you spot the difference?

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Luckily its not going to be a major drama, slight grinding of the bottom of this piece will allow my alternator bracket to work.

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Maok.....just wondering about the alternator bracket.........does it need to be bolted together?.............a few good welds would save on bolts and nuts, also the alternator appears to be just held with a single lower bolt to the rear......yet there seems to be a bracket going forward that the bottom bolt, albeit longer, would be more secure going forward to...........sorry if this doesn't make sense..........but does the alternator wobble on just having  the lower bolt arrangement or is it just the pic that appears to accentuate this?..................andyd  

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That pic is a quick dummy up, below is how it actually is installed. As you can see below there is 3 bolts that hold the base bracket to the block.

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Maok............I just had another look at the pic after cleaning my glasses...........lol.........I can now see the lower cast part of the alternator and the bolt going thru it towards the front........will go and sit in my corner now........lol............andyd

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No worries Andy, the black colour is not very clear in that image.

 

Should I paint the brackets same colour as the block or keep them black?

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What do you guys generally set the crank end play at?

The bloke who did the babbitt bearings and crank grind has f'ed it up. I am at 0.002" - 0.0025 at the moment by sanding the last bearing  edge/face with 1200 grit wet&dry sand paper, and I still seem to have some binding. 

Initially when I was checking it, the crank barely turned freely one revolution, now I it will turn freely about 1 1/2 revs.

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Maok, dunno if this helps but my 1953 Motors Auto Repair Manual which covers most US cars 1935 to 1953 in the Chrysler section under Crankshaft End Thrust Data it lists it as .003 to .007 taken at the rear main for 6 and 8's........" If the clearance is insufficient the bearing flanges may be dressed down. If  too much clearance is present, install a new thrust bearing" .........unfortunately it sounds like you are having a dressing down party this New Years Eve................can't find anything specifically covering babbitt bearings.....checked the Buick listing as I thought the mid 30's Buicks had them but appears not..........andyd   

Edited by Andydodge
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Thanks mate, I was told by the machinist that 0.002" was about right for these very early engines, so much tighter than modern engines as your data sheets suggest. I suspect the crank thrust area (on #6) or the bearing thrust face (end bearing) has not been machined well.

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Maok..........I may have asked this before but are you a member of the Chrysler Restorers Club?........I am and have been on & off since the mid 70's........their tech Officer for Pre 1930 is David Vassallo 02 9632 1414, you could also try Les Sonter 02 9639 8703 he's the Tech Officer for 1931 to 1940.......maybe try Les first, I've known Les for about 35yrs and he shouldn't hang the phone up if you mention my name..........lol.........I'm no mechanic but I'd be sanding the bearing till I got enough of a clearance that allows the crank to spin easily without any binding...............do you have the actual specs?.................andyd   

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Sand paper grit might embed into the Babbit...be careful.

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Thanks Andy for the contact details, I might contact them if nothing concrete comes from another forum I posted in.

 

The 1200 grit paper is very fine, which was recommended that should be used, i have found good results with using engine degreaser as the lubricant. Its new territory for me this poured babbitt bearing business.

 

I have a lot more to check after I am happy with the end play of the crank.

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Anyone know what this hole is designed for? The old engine was gummed up with oil and grease.

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This is the reason why you check everything before installing.

Lucky it was only 4 of the rods...?           The old rod big end oil hole, much small than the new one.

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What is the best orientation of the small end of the rods? Four options I guess, all bolts facing to the front, all bolts facing to the rear, bolts alternating from 1 to 6  or bolts alternating with like cylinders, ie 1&6 etc.

 

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Ford Model A engine head studs - left  (don't tell @Andydodge), almost the same size but might need to use a washer under nut.

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Cleaning out the cylinder head threads. I was mazed that you couldn't get a thread chaser at quality tool stores, so I made my own.

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Checking for blockage in the main bearing oil hole, then a little clean out.

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Maok...........why are you cleaning out all the oil passages at this stage?............didn't the guy that did the bearings do any of this and also chase the threads, etc?.........do you have any technical manual or shop manual for this engine?.............andyd

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2 hours ago, Andydodge said:

Maok...........why are you cleaning out all the oil passages at this stage?............didn't the guy that did the bearings do any of this and also chase the threads, etc?.........do you have any technical manual or shop manual for this engine?.............andyd

 

The bloke who did the bearings did the line bore and another bloke did the machining of the block.

 

This is the reason why I have checking and cleaning everything Andy, the oiling hole of the big end of the crank is full of solder/babbitt material.

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Edited by maok
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I don't suppose that either of these 2 jerks are related to a guy named Robin Orlando?............lol............when I first bought the 40 Dodge Sedan I was going to part it out for my 1940 Dodge Coupe, but  it was too good to use for parts so I decided to restore it..........I had just left school and started a well paying job so had various places and shops do things..............Better Brakes rebuilt the brakes, Graden Gears did the gearbox and diff/rear axle and a guy named Robin Orlando reco'd and rebuilt the engine..............I dropped it off, and picked up the engine with the sump and head on, supposedly everything between was new and rec'd..............1000miles later there was an oil leak from the rear main........I dropped the sump only to discover metal swarf in the pan......dropped the rear main to check the seal and discovered scored and grooved bearings and crank............when contacted by me this dropkick denied all liability and blamed me.......this shithead had failed to clean out the oil lines and passages properly..............lol............so thats why the Dodge has a 318 Poly..............and I had it reco'd BUT little 'ol me assembled it and its been fine for about 44 years...........I just love hearing stories about the wonderful work that professional mechanics, engineers and various specialists do............and they do it with not so much of a smile as they pocket our hard earned cash.................I have a list of these bastards names and when I'm tapped on the shoulder and told my time is up I'll be able to recommend a range of replacements instead of me that can go join Walter P Chrysler...............lol............Maok, I hope you can get it fixed o/k...............regards, andyd 

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13 minutes ago, Andydodge said:

I don't suppose that either of these 2 jerks are related to a guy named Robin Orlando?............lol............when I first bought the 40 Dodge Sedan I was going to part it out for my 1940 Dodge Coupe, but  it was too good to use for parts so I decided to restore it..........I had just left school and started a well paying job so had various places and shops do things..............Better Brakes rebuilt the brakes, Graden Gears did the gearbox and diff/rear axle and a guy named Robin Orlando reco'd and rebuilt the engine..............I dropped it off, and picked up the engine with the sump and head on, supposedly everything between was new and rec'd..............1000miles later there was an oil leak from the rear main........I dropped the sump only to discover metal swarf in the pan......dropped the rear main to check the seal and discovered scored and grooved bearings and crank............when contacted by me this dropkick denied all liability and blamed me.......this shithead had failed to clean out the oil lines and passages properly..............lol............so thats why the Dodge has a 318 Poly..............and I had it reco'd BUT little 'ol me assembled it and its been fine for about 44 years...........I just love hearing stories about the wonderful work that professional mechanics, engineers and various specialists do............and they do it with not so much of a smile as they pocket our hard earned cash.................I have a list of these bastards names and when I'm tapped on the shoulder and told my time is up I'll be able to recommend a range of replacements instead of me that can go join Walter P Chrysler...............lol............Maok, I hope you can get it fixed o/k...............regards, andyd 

 

Gee, I wouldn't want to be on your list mate....lol     No, none of them were your cousin Robin Orlando....lol

 

2mm drill bit fixed the oiling hole on the big end of the rod....?

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One mystery solved regarding the orientation of the conrods. Maybe I should read my manual more....? 

 

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I did a lot of fun stuff today. Clean, clean clean!!!!  

 

I am not happy with the state of the rod bolts and nuts from both engines, do you blokes know if any of the later 1934 onwards flat heads use the same rod bolts and nuts. These have a side cut to the head of the bolt with hole for a split pin at the end, and have castle nuts. 

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When I was pulling this engine apart over two years ago I mentioned that the timing case was modified and the timing chain was not around the generator gear because an altenator (or a later model generator) was attached to the left side of the engine and ran off the fan belt, like later models in the Chrysler family. Here is a comparison of the timing chain and cam gears.

Left is the original that would also go around the generator gear, the right just goes around the crank gear. Gear on the right bolts up  with 3 bolts.

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The two camshaft gears on top of each other, you can see how they are a different gear set (the top one is a smaller diameter) with a different pitch to the tooth.

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I think I have a decision to make.

 

Edited by maok
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Update on the crank and bearing clearances, I took the engine block, crank and rods back to my machinist and they did their magic  and now we have end play about 0.003" -0.004" end play, no binding of the crank with the bearings, and a happy Moe. Its tricky to install these pistons with rings from the inside of the block. Lucky this was a dummy up, I over tighten the piston pin bolt to 40ft-lp, should be 25-30ft-lb

 

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The other issuse that arised was the position of the oil filler tube on this older block, had my local engineer fabricate an attachment to the tube from the other engine. Now we can run the alternator again.

 

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Some opinions needed. Black valve covers to match the manifold or same colour as the engine block?

 

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Slight engine mod, ported the inlet of the inlet manifold about 2 mm and took off the casting marks of the outlets. The reason for this is that Brisbane is sub-tropical and hot, I can really notice the difference from day and night driving.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am back at it after a delay waiting for two broken oil rings to arrive from the supplier. These are one piece and extremely fragile, snaps so easily.

 

Any one have experience with felt oil seals in the rear main cap?

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When you don't have the right tool for the job, one just needs to dodgy it up.

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