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maok

28 Chrysler 25" Engine tear down and rebuild

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Hi all, I thought some of you blokes (and gals) would be interested in my engine build. I have been posting these on aaca site but there maybe some interested here.

This is my first flathead rebuild, so any advice, tips, criticism, comments will be appreciated, my skin is very thick...:)

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I was gifted the engine from a top bloke in Sydney (Aust.), Im in Brisbane (Aust.), who acquired it for his '29 Chrysler but did not go ahead with installing it because it wasnt the correct engine

The 28 engine has the generator integrated into the block and is driven by the timing chain that runs off the crankshaft and camshaft. But this engine the original generator had been by passed with a timing chain on the crack and cam only. An alternator was probably hung off the other side run by the fan belt.

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All bolts, washers, nuts, brackets, etc....tag em and bag em.  That sure helped me when I did my rebuild.  Then I knew for sure that "this bolt was for the distributor hold down, this bracket was for the clutch linkage, and so on.   Just sayin' it really helped me because you end up with a lot of things laying on your bench :)

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Interesting setup with the generator. I don't know anything about the motors from this era. Had they started using water pumps by this point? My older tractors don't use water pumps, instead using a "thermo-syphon" system.

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Camshaft driven generators were commonplace  at this time.  Buick had a cam driven generator with the distributor on the back of it followed by the water pump.  Very neat but hard to service..   Your engine  will likely have thick walled babbited inserts for the main bearings which can likely be re used.   This  engine shares no components with the later 25 inch engine . Water pumps were used on all  Chrysler engines except the 4.  Engine designs  were advancing rapidly at this time.  You will find your engine has very narrow application.   The SAE publication   Chrysler Engines 1922-1998  by Willem L Weertman will give you the whole story/

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Thank you for posting this. Maybe it will stop me from whining to myself so much about how hard it is to find parts and how expensive it is to buy them for my 40's stuff.

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Here is the modification to the front timing cover to allow for alternator/generator belt. And the generator that was not used but still had to be bolt on.

IMG_2724.JPG.027d20f6b67fcaaf2d680ed45482087c.JPGIMG_2690.JPG.f3d363808c77f4a8c8a8e1a8d0249563.JPG

 

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7 hours ago, Fernando Mendes said:

Which type was its carburetor?I know it was updraft.Was Carter B&B?

The original carb is a Stromberg U1 but are very hard to come by. I have a Carter BB1 on my engine currently, seems to work well and very easy to tune.

8 hours ago, dpollo said:

Camshaft driven generators were commonplace  at this time.  Buick had a cam driven generator with the distributor on the back of it followed by the water pump.  Very neat but hard to service..   Your engine  will likely have thick walled babbited inserts for the main bearings which can likely be re used.   This  engine shares no components with the later 25 inch engine . Water pumps were used on all  Chrysler engines except the 4.  Engine designs  were advancing rapidly at this time.  You will find your engine has very narrow application.   The SAE publication   Chrysler Engines 1922-1998  by Willem L Weertman will give you the whole story/

I originally signed up to this site in hoping the later and more common 201,218,230 would drop into my 28 with not too much trouble, but how wrong I was.

 

 

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I put a complete 36  Dodge  engine and trans into a 26 Dodge  . Used the 36 pedal and master cylinder mount as well.

Easy day, but perhaps I was lucky.    40 Plyrod  on this forum has the 26 now should you be seeking photos etc.

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Maok..........welcome to the forum, these guys know their stuff..........good to see another aussie here.........I'm in Grafton & have a 1940 Dodge D15 Sedan, 318 poly, auto, discs etc theres a guy in Brisbane, Davin Cole, "DeSotoDav" who's also a member here tho' he is into the Pilothouse trucks big time..........are you a member of the Chrysler Restorers Club?........regards, Andy Douglas 

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1 hour ago, Andydodge said:

Maok..........welcome to the forum, these guys know their stuff..........good to see another aussie here.........I'm in Grafton & have a 1940 Dodge D15 Sedan, 318 poly, auto, discs etc theres a guy in Brisbane, Davin Cole, "DeSotoDav" who's also a member here tho' he is into the Pilothouse trucks big time..........are you a member of the Chrysler Restorers Club?........regards, Andy Douglas 

Hey Andy, I think your grey matter is losing some memory cells. I have already been in touch with you and Dav on the phone when I first join the site last year. It was your insights that help me decide to not pursue the later model engines - thank you both. I'm not a hotrodder or a purest either but I like to keep it original as possible while making sure it is practical and functional. So, dropping a different engine would have require too many custom work, ie. engine supports, pedal mods, etc.

The engine that I am taring down at the moment is the spare, the aim is to build it with some extra grunt but not too much. The original was rate at about 55hp, so if I get say 70hp, I would be happy, but we will see how it goes.

 

Edited by maok
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EERRRRR.........what day is it?............lol.............oops, sorry.........I didn't remember you contacting me...........all good.........lol...........wack a bit off the head, tube headers and maybe a pair of Holden single barrel Strombergs & go upset the restorers.........lol...............andyd  

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12 hours ago, rcb said:

Interesting setup with the generator. I don't know anything about the motors from this era. Had they started using water pumps by this point? My older tractors don't use water pumps, instead using a "thermo-syphon" system.

The 1929 U model Plymouth was still thermo - syphon. 

Rick

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What is the trick to post an image/s from a hosting site like photobucket.com. The 'Insert other Media' button is not working for me...:(

When I copy and paste the image link from photobucket, it doesn't recognise it.

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6 hours ago, maok said:

What is the trick to post an image/s from a hosting site like photobucket.com. The 'Insert other Media' button is not working for me...:(

When I copy and paste the image link from photobucket, it doesn't recognise it.

Don't use the (IMG) link. Copy and paste the (DIRECT) link on Photobucket.

004_1.jpg

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More pics;

One valve guide broken..:(

IMG_3782-small.JPG.bdd09aa1a748be30fc9ab8bb4a6e4ce3.JPGIMG_3777-small.JPG.589f0b75bdcbb2a63b7e33ae0dff345c.JPG

Looks to be some over bore. Standard is 3"

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A balancing act;

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Did someone say slusge;

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I pulled all the pistons out today.

The compression rings are typical but the oil rings were a little different to what I was expecting. 4 rings in each oil ring groove pack together, that's 8 all up plus the compression ring.

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Also, the piston pin seems to be kept in place by some sort of spring setup.  I will post more pics of the piston pin set up later.

IMG_3937.JPG.7793eb5678efd64c6c7200658beeaf3f.JPGIMG_3938.JPG.6ab02a600309aa54b728e7f6420c048f.JPG

 

Where did the crankshaft seals go?

Front;

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Rear;

You can make out two small strips of a seal on the rear main cap but there is nothing else.

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IMG_3939.JPG

Edited by maok
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The front crank seal would be in your timing chain cover. The rear one appears to have taken a hike... 

Wrist pins may be held in place with a circlip (snap-ring). Can't tell in these pictures. 

Looking again I see what looks possibly like a locking bolt in the bottom of the wrist pin area. I don't ever recall seeing something like that. 

Edited by Merle Coggins

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just from the pictures, it looks like that  engine is in decent shape.   No broken rings, no scored journals babbitt looks good and the head gasket certainly shows no sign of leakage.   Not all older engines had a seal in the back  but instead relied on the slinger which is a good size on your crankshaft.   Sometimes there were grooves in the babbitt to help excess oil drain back.

The valve seat can have an insert put in it which is not a bad idea in any case.   Good luck with it.

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Yes, generally it looks in pretty good shape. However, there are a couple broken rings, four cracked pistons and a couple of babbits have chips out of them...:(

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^^ How the piston pin is kept in place on the conrod.

There seems to be two slightly different types of piston.

IMG_3948.JPG.d9fd92ec6c0ff795eb813464babd4283.JPGThis style piston was in #4 & #6 cylinders, long gap down one side of the piston and no springy thing inside.

 

This was in the other cylinders with the spriny thing inside and a gap with pin on both sides to hold the the springy thing.

IMG_3964.JPG.940a5db293d89349308b891f0e076359.JPGIMG_3969.JPG.69dfac2208e19a80cdb31382df0a9693.JPG

IMG_3967.JPG.5435f46d874e9966f1883609522d7c25.JPGChips anyone?

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