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thebeebe5

Time for an overhaul...

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1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Could you post the Best Gasket Rope Seal instructions and is that what you did?

Yeah, I did follow the instructions.  I can post, but don't have them in hand. But here's how they go.  

They provide two ropes as pictured.  They also provide a razor blade, 1/2 a tongue depressor and a thin gauge approximately 0.020" thick to help guide your trimming of excess. They want some contact compression at the seal parting lines.   Seal works for inside or outside the block applications. For inside the block or outside the block with a retainer of sufficient thickness they provide a 1/16" diameter (approximately) by  1/4" long roll pin that they want you to drill the block or holder for to act as an anchor so the seal can be held in place without spinning.  Drill 1/8" deep and push the pin in place leaving 1/8" protruding to penetrate the seal and keep it in place. As I had a retainer that was too thin to drill they instruct to utilize RTV sealant to keep the seal stationary in leiu of the supplied pin.   Use a large socket or pipe or other implement to form the seal to approximate the profile of the crank seal surface.   I found that the seal is pliable enough that I had better contact completely around the seal by allowing the crankshaft to form the seal to itself, hence the repeated trial installations. 

Also, if you have an application that requires the wide rope seal they will send that at no charge per your application requirements. 

 

I'll post a picture of the sheet when I can get back to the shop. 

Edited by thebeebe5

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Some progress yesterday.    Still waiting to get the head back from the welder's, but had time to get the pistons inatalled and rod caps torqued up, and was also able to get started sorting the front plate parts, gaskets, timing chain bits etc....   

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Couldn't think of any other way to properly clean these tubes for the oil pickup.....   Necessity is the Mother of invention they say.

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Everything for the front is sorted out.   I'll get it all installed next Saturday. Still plenty to do though....

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On 3/4/2018 at 10:02 AM, thebeebe5 said:

Couldn't think of any other way to properly clean these tubes for the oil pickup.....   Necessity is the Mother of invention they say.

 

I never thought of using a bore snake for that! Good idea!

 

Greg

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looking good!

 

thanks for documenting your whole journey in this thread, and sharing all the pictures.

a fine example of what internet message boards should be like. :)

 

Fred

 

 

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10 hours ago, Frank Elder said:

I can't follow this thread any longer..........dramatic sigh........my way of building an engine is so barbaric and crude compared to your process I'm surprised any of my engines are still running.

I tried to do a "shade tree" rebuild on my '67 F250 and ended up getting the machine work done at this shop.  The owner only does full-on custom work, even if he basically assembles a kit for a customer.   Custom meaning each part sourced is carefully measured before use and machine work is meticulous.  He wouldn't even take my job if I was going to ball-hone the cylinders (which were in fantastic shape as they were).  Through the course of that project in 2013 I learned a LOT about doing careful work.  I'm sure it would have run my way, but I sure felt better about having gone through it with such care.   Besides, as it's not my real vocation the excersies were fun and I got a great sense of pride in the learning process.  Truck runs like a top.  I expect the P4 to as well. Definitely anxious to finish up and drive it!!! 

Edited by thebeebe5

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careful how you install the oil transfer pipe .  The way that looked right to me allowed the counterweight to hit.

almost did it this way twice....... and that was 50 years ago.  some lessons you do not easily forget.

 

( at that time it cost $24 to have the crankshaft ground )

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looking forward to your documentation of putting the timing gears and chain on in the correct way to get the valve timing right...

i'm going to face the same challenge soon on a 230cui Dodge engine,

this here will basically become my step by step manual to double check everything i'm doing. :)

 

also i'm looking into getting a set of custom forged pistons for another engine, how long did it take JE to get yours made

(the second time when they got it right)? I was also going to get a price estimate from Ross to see what they charge.

yours aren't teflon coated or anything, are they?

 

Fred

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3 hours ago, Cpt.Fred said:

looking forward to your documentation of putting the timing gears and chain on in the correct way to get the valve timing right...

i'm going to face the same challenge soon on a 230cui Dodge engine,

this here will basically become my step by step manual to double check everything i'm doing. :)

 

also i'm looking into getting a set of custom forged pistons for another engine, how long did it take JE to get yours made

(the second time when they got it right)? I was also going to get a price estimate from Ross to see what they charge.

yours aren't teflon coated or anything, are they?

 

Fred

I've had the chain on and off a couple times just checking I have all the right parts etc, but I will certainly document the final installation with pictures.  Was even thinking of degreeing the cam for fun and practice.  

 

The pistons are uncoated. Any info you may want to borrow should be on the spec card back in this thread.   If it's not there I'll try to answer.  They're a basic aluminum forging, nothing fancy, but propper for the application.  I think I had the first set in a week.   They took almost three weeks after returning them to send the correct spec'd pistons.  

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Remember how nice my cylinder head looked after I'd glass beaded it...?   Well, it's back from the welder...  :mellow:

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Good question, @Dodgeb4ya, and it's quite flat by straight edge, but I'll have an exact number later today once we cut it.   We did a '37 Auburn motor about 1.5 years ago.  8cyl flat head.  THAT head came back warped and had to be sent back for straightening.  Dropped this head off and gave explicit instructions.  Braze it and make sure it's still straight.   Nice thing about the brazing process is the temp they heat the head to prior is much lower than welding.  

 

So far today I've got it cleaned up in the bead blast cab, used a die grinder to shape the spark plug hole, and surfaced the top of the head.  Ended up taking about 0.014" off to get to this point, and I'll just use some silicone on the gasket for the water neck.    De-burred the holes and used the die grinder again to clean up outside edges that were cut.   Don't want any cut fingers....!  

 

Edit:   Unable to upload more photos today for whatever reason. I'll check back later and post more progress. 

Edited by thebeebe5

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Yesterday's images. 

Fresh blast on the head with old media.

 

 

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Edited by thebeebe5

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Here's the brass "weld" to the cracked areas off the water passage.  I used a die grinder to shape the plug hole area.

 

 

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Edited by thebeebe5

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Final look before surfacing the top of the head and re-blasting to make it all look nice. 

 

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It appears I've uploaded my max for the day....  3mb per day and all I want to share to the thread would mean postage stamp size images.  I'll wait to upload more progress tomorrow.

Edited by thebeebe5

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Great thread.  Alas , I have thrown away uncracked heads and would have been pleased to give you one......  but freight is a real handicap to get parts around at reasonable final cost.

And if you are on an island, like me, it gets even worse.

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34 minutes ago, dpollo said:

Great thread.  Alas , I have thrown away uncracked heads and would have been pleased to give you one......  but freight is a real handicap to get parts around at reasonable final cost.

And if you are on an island, like me, it gets even worse.

 

Sincerely appreciated, @dpollo.  The brazing was free.  The machine work is being done by me, so that's hard to beat.  

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okay...   images up!    

 

Got the head mounted and shaved 8mil off the top to achieve a nice, level surface for all the head bolts and water neck.   Not a necessary step except that there was a fair bit of brass to level for the water neck mating surface and that had to be machined.  Just did the whole thing....

 

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Then flipped it over to surface the gasket mating surface.   Took a  total of 11.2 mil to get completely level.  

 

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Edited by thebeebe5

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On 3/6/2018 at 8:03 AM, Frank Elder said:

I can't follow this thread any longer..........

Stay with me, Frank, stay with me.  B)

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@Cpt.Fred,  I hope this is helpful for you.

 

Got the timing chain installed yesterday.  

 

Pretty basic stuff.  Just match up the timing marks per the service manual.  The gear teeth are pretty large, and even one tooth off either direction will make it impossible to line up the timing marks properly.  

 

Start with rotating to TDC for #1. You don't really need a dial indicator for this, but I had one. It does make it easier IMO.  

 

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Timing mark will be pointing right at the cam at this point at approximately 10:30 if you imaging a clock face behind the crankshaft snout.  

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The cam gear has an eccentric bolt pattern and can only be bolted on in one orientation.  Good for me, because I need idiot-proofing just about everywhere.  Orient the gear where you can finger tighten ALL THREE bolts so you don't make any assumptions about if or not they're lined up.   The spring pressure on my engine is pretty light so I was able to hand rotate the cam gear to line up the timing marks. 

 

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Marks will match up like this:

 

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I drew a sharpie line across the face of the cam and gear to make it obvious when I reinstalled the gear with the chain on, and that's the next step.  Fit the chain to the cam gear and slip it over the crankshaft gear.  Try the cam gear on the cam and see if the marks line up.   If not, adjust a tooth (or several, whatever it takes) either way until the marks are back lined up.  Thread the bolts in the cam face and double check the timing marks.  If all is lined up torque to spec.   

 

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Note that in this orientation #1 piston is not TDC on its firing stroke.  

 

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The cam at #1 is actually on the overlap and #6 is firing, seen below.

 

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 When you rotate the crankshaft 360° (and thus the cam gear 180°) then #1 is at TDC for its firing stroke. 

 

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Last I got done yesterday was reinstalling the cover (put the balancer/pulley on before torquing the cover bolts to correctly center the balancer in the seal), and the oil tubes underneath.  Had a number of tasks in the am and end of day that limited my time a bit. 

 

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Core plugs installed as well.

Edited by thebeebe5

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sure does help, very cool! B) thank you!

 

where did you get that super nice original cam gear? i've gotten CNC'd ones the last time i ordered them new.

i'll get my engine back from the shop next week, will do the full flow conversion and then start the assembly

(after cleaning it for days on end :)).

i plan to drill the oil pump boss, plug it from underneath, get rid of the cross over tube in the crank case

and instead enter the main oil gallery directly with an outside oil line.

 

and now back to your thread!

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4 hours ago, Cpt.Fred said:

sure does help, very cool! B) thank you!

 

where did you get that super nice original cam gear? i've gotten CNC'd ones the last time i ordered them new.

i'll get my engine back from the shop next week, will do the full flow conversion and then start the assembly

(after cleaning it for days on end :)).

i plan to drill the oil pump boss, plug it from underneath, get rid of the cross over tube in the crank case

and instead enter the main oil gallery directly with an outside oil line.

 

and now back to your thread!

 

That gear is the one I took out when I tore it down. Just bead blasted it.  There's some wear, but not enough to justify replacement.  

 

Your project sounds interesting. Would be loads easier if you didn't have to route oil all the way around the outside of the motor....  That's a long drive! 

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that's true, but i think it is a very narrow boss to drill the 2 holes in, like you did on your engine... don't know if i want to try to pull that off.

plus we're running equal lenght tube headers, that take away lots of space. it's like a snake's nest on that side.

but i haven't really decided yet, maybe i'll just measure some more and then go straight to copying your method :-)

 

good one on the gear! the one i took out of mine is completely shot.

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