Jump to content

Valves, springs and guides... (oh my)


Recommended Posts

working on my B4d (230) I bought new valves, had the old springs tested @ 95lbs and decided/ advised to buy another new one. I found a guy that had a NOS "gray" one to compare the LB to my old set, it tested 85lbs!  so I bought a brand new set (USA made) they test 105lbs @ 1-3/8" compressed (book calls for 107- 115lbs)

5923094638983_valvesprings.JPG.15e3c9e46fa6eea223ca2f7f448dbd39.JPG

so, the question is, are the springs for the cars, the same as the trucks? reason I ask is in the shop manual of the place where I bought the "NOS" gray/ silver one it mentions different colors as where my truck shop manual does not. AND the car manual specifies 40lbs- 45lbs at 1-3/4" where the truck manual is 105-115 at 1-3/8"

as a side note, with the .3000 shims will bump my old springs up to 100lbs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

second subject, guides, same truck

anyone know why the guides need to be "flipped" per intake or exhaust valve like the manual says?

59230c41783b1_guides(4).JPG.713aa160b816a3e0ad4907877c9ec1b5.JPG

working on my truck I noticed there is a tapered end and the counter bore end

59230c4317416_guides(1).JPG.2bb9462592a36c73369c93780a0598b0.JPG59230c454193e_guides(2).JPG.08d23cc6486b083f0b3ffedfa4aa68a0.JPG

and someone installed all of them with the taper down (counter bore up)

59230c3ff3fa6_guides(3).JPG.197e552d56125240f569eef13f171773.JPG

guess on the bright side at least half are pointed the right direction :D 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

orientation of the valve guides provides for better heat shielding........just follow the book...lol

as for the spring rating, gain follow your book....the trucks of severe duty normally got a sodium filled valves...specs would be for that application I would presume...I believe I posted the info for the car valve spring color and rate....sorry if I have mislead you in your rebuild here.....I would defer to the actual shop book for the dodge, not so much an aftermarket at this time just to bounce their rates to see if 'ballpark'

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks PA! the orientation explanation makes sense, (wish the book spelled it out like that) I can see WHY they installed them all the same way, just wasn't sure if it was a big deal.  

you didn't mislead me. just want to make sure I have the correct part for my application.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If one end of the spring is wound tighter (progressive wound) install that end to the head or block.... not to the Valve spring retainer end.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

If one end of the spring is wound tighter (progressive wound) install that end to the head or block.... not to the Valve spring retainer end.

Will do! I saw that in the truck shop manual. but, where I picked up that gray NOS spring his "Plymouth" book said they could be installed either way......    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

" . . . any advice for people who are wound tight but less on the progressive side of life?" 

PA, yes, but then that response would be, political, or religious, or genetic and any of these three will get me 30 days! LOL 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you install new guides, you have to recut the seats.  Also, make sure your clearance between the valve stem and guides is within spec. Loose...and it will smoke!

Image result for refacing valve seats stone

Edited by John-T-53
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 10:56 AM, John-T-53 said:

When you install new guides, you have to recut the seats.  Also, make sure your clearance between the valve stem and guides is within spec. Loose...and it will smoke!

i agree (because i have been told that before) but for the life of me can't wrap my brain around why.

as it sits, the half the guides were put in upside down and it ran. One intake has noticeable "side to side" slop.  i thought if i installed by the depth recommended in the book it would be all good...... i must be thrown off by the term "guide"  

frustrating! guess i'll look into yanking it and having it redone. my $300. fix just turned into 3K

Thanks anyway guys for the help

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the valves have been rattling around, the valve seat angle becomes distorted and they will not seal properly... loose and oil will be drawn into the combustion chamber on the intake stroke.  I hand lapped my valves with the suction cup on a stick and valve grind compound... it took awhile, but I developed a feel for when the valves and seats were in full contact :cool:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

The book says to remove the tappet assemblies before removing the valve guides  

594825bb2aad3_valveguides(1).PNG.f477cea68e5a0b88721a30ae0787fd6b.PNG

but, I was able to remove the guides with the motor in the truck and the tappet assemblies in place   :)

 

Edited by Brent B3B
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The tappet assemblies the book is referring to are only on the H-Duty 30" long truck engines and are removable as an assembly holding six lifters each..

The 23" and 25" engines do not have removable lifter assemblies as you know.

413 DT SixTear Down Tappet Guides (2).JPG

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Brent B3B said:

The book says to remove the tappet assemblies before removing the valve guides  

but, I was able to remove the guides with the motor in the truck and the tappet assemblies in place   

 

Yup, breaking the guides in half is the way to get 'em out. You can just hit 'em with a cold chisel and a hammer and they'll snap. But - I like your surgical method with the cutting tool!

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 11:05 AM, John-T-53 said:

Yup, breaking the guides in half is the way to get 'em out. You can just hit 'em with a cold chisel and a hammer and they'll snap. But - I like your surgical method with the cutting tool!

 

thanks, It was difficult with the motor in the truck, the wheel hub in my chest, maneuvering around the shock and trying not to slip and hit the tappets :)  so I cheated

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 6:34 PM, Dodgeb4ya said:

The tappet assemblies the book is referring to are only on the H-Duty 30" long truck engines and are removable as an assembly holding six lifters each..

The 23" and 25" engines do not have removable lifter assemblies as you know.

 

are the tappet adjusting nuts removable on the 23" and 25"

I might have mentioned they are EXTREMLY tight, and I was thinking about removing the nuts and try and clean them up. but I don't want to bugger them up further or not be able to reassemble them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd just leave 'em in place, they don't need any special care unless the top surface is damaged (which if it is that means you have bigger issues). I do think they come all the way off, but they will get looser the more you turn them. You want them tight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, John-T-53 said:

I'd just leave 'em in place, they don't need any special care unless the top surface is damaged (which if it is that means you have bigger issues). I do think they come all the way off, but they will get looser the more you turn them. You want them tight.

I would not even consider removing them BUT, they are SO tight, it is difficult turning them with an open ended wrench and the "shoulders" are starting to round on one.

I could use the boxed end to turn them, but it isn't very convenient and hard to do with the motor running :)  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW I recently tried the candle wax trick on The Blue Bomber's downpipe flange bolts before upgrading to the 4" exhaust...after the 1 hr drive back from work, I would apply the wax til it ran off the flange, did that for over a week...I was pleasantly surprised when not only did they back out, but they didn't even squeak a peep...totes amazeballs :cool: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes the screw can be removed.......

What it looks like.....

Valve Lifter 6 Cyl Screw thread (1).JPG

Valve Lifter 6 Cyl Screw thread (2).JPG

Valve Lifter 6 Cyl Screw thread (5).JPG

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

had a guy from a local machine shop make a "house call" and ground the seats this last Wednesday after work.

597e431779a7c_seatgrind(768x1024).jpg.6d3c8461a1ff23c2a4660cc8162f6a2f.jpg

I do love the look of new valves

597e445997f00_newvalves(765x1024).jpg.0de4978bbac916ca781a47d4087d2c7b.jpg

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I removed and cleaned up the adjuster screws with very little improvement. considering grinding the valve stems to gain the difference

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.

Terms of Use