MackTheFinger Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 15 hours ago, Mike36 said: Many years ago I had a 57 Ford Custom 300, powered by a 292 with 4 bbl and dual exhaust, 3 speed overdrive. It ran pretty good for the day, but I can't imagine a 272 shutting down a 426 wedge. That Ford either had a 4.88 or lower gears , or engine mods, or both. Not gonna happen if the Ford was stock. I rode in several of both, and those 426's were very quick. Bracket racing.. Power doesn't matter all that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackTheFinger Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 It's pretty easy to find a speed calculator. At 3,650 rpms with 3.90 gears and a 28 inch tire this one says 78 mph. http://www.advanced-ev.com/Calculators/TireSize/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike36 Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said: Bracket racing.. Power doesn't matter all that much. Oh yeah, bracket racing. The reason I quit going to drag races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackTheFinger Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 Just now, Mike36 said: Oh yeah, bracket racing. The reason I quit going to drag races. Yeah, it seems wrong somehow.. That 426 was a FAST car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 These old cars, are far from speed demons, no matter how much we might think different in our "minds"....LOL Infact they can be quite neck resting slow, oh yah they will keep up, and in the city, light to light. But they are not anything about performance, not saying it can't be done to the Chrysler flathead, but it will not be in stock form. I sometimes, get annoyed with my truck, and it;s limitations speed wise, acceleration to speed wise, but got to remember its a 62 year old truck, running with near 80 year old technology. The Ford flathead V8 aint any better in stock form, and develops it's peak torque much higher in the RPM band, the Chevrolet Stovebolt 6s especially the 216 splasher, does not tolerate what a Chrysler flathead 6 will..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike36 Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said: Yeah, it seems wrong somehow.. That 426 was a FAST car. Sorry Mack, I just plain forgot about bracket racing. Been to many years since I was there. With that being said, I am now going to forget about it again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackTheFinger Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 Just now, 55 Fargo Spitfire said: These old cars, are far from speed demons, no matter how much we might think different in our "minds"....LOL Infact they can be quite neck resting slow, oh yah they will keep up, and in the city, light to light. But they are not anything about performance, not saying it can't be done to the Chrysler flathead, but it will not be in stock form. I sometimes, get annoyed with my truck, and it;s limitations speed wise, acceleration to speed wise, but got to remember its a 62 year old truck, running with near 80 year old technology. The Ford flathead V8 aint any better in stock form, and develops it's peak torque much higher in the RPM band, the Chevrolet Stovebolt 6s especially the 216 splasher, does not tolerate what a Chrysler flathead 6 will..... I agree with all of that. I drove a VW transporter for a long time, the right lane is no stranger to me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackTheFinger Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Mike36 said: Sorry Mack, I just plain forgot about bracket racing. Been to many years since I was there. With that being said, I am now going to forget about it again. I think it was just a way to get more people in the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike36 Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said: I agree with all of that. I drove a VW transporter for a long time, the right lane is no stranger to me.. Mack, I'm surprised you're able to type, would think you were still trying to get up a hill somewhere!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Mike36 said: Knuckleharley, I wasn't referring to what you had written. Sorry I should have been more clear. I was referring to post no7. I clearly remember how a 426 Mopar would slam me back in the seat at full throttle, and NO stock 272 Ford could come close to that. But I do have a question, are the Hemi engines of the 50's not considered big blocks? I know the first ones were 331 ci, but I always considered them big blocks. I enjoy your posts, keep on typing. The answer is "I honestly don't know what they are,or where they fit in". First of all,they are all obsolete today because nobody is really building modern speed parts for them. The guys that want to go REALLY fast by today's standards buy new aluminum heads and blocks and start adding parts to them. Don't forget,there really are a lot of 10 second quarter mile and some 9 second quarter mile cars rumbling down city streets and highways today with air conditioning and stereos blasting,and back when the 50's hemi's were the KING,that was top fuel dragster territory. The smaller hemis in the 50's,like the Dodge and DeSoto were roughly the same size and weight of a SBC. I have been told my 291 and 330 DeSoto engines are actually lighter than a SBC. They are a hell of a lot more expensive to rebuild and buy hi-po parts for,though. Unless you own a machine shop you just can't build a early hemi to even run with a SBF or SBC today without spending a LOT more money. They are nostalgic engines. I am going to put the 330 in my 33 Plymouth coupe with a push-button 727 and 6 carbs if I ever live long enough,but I am mostly re-creating the 50's and 60's. No part in the car will be newer than maybe 1960,and all the mechanics will be either Mopar or period aftermarket stuff,like the 6x2 intake and the Stromberg carbs. I'm going to build a fun driver,not a race car,so I honestly don't give a damn if some 4 cylinder buzz bomb can out run me. He may be faster,but he's still driving a buzz bomb. I don't know much about the Chrysler hemi's,but I have been told that they are also of reasonable size and weight until you get up to the 392 and larger ones. Those things are serious lumps of cast iron and really impractical for anything other than a restoration or fenderless hot rod. The engines that really impressed ME the most back in the 60's were the Max-Wedge 413's and 426's. They were pushing 4,000 + lbs A/S and A/SA cars about as aerodynamic as a brick down the quarter mile and turning low 12 second times at will on 7 inch nylon tires. You ain't lived until you have been standing in the pits when one of the old factory 413 race cars came idling back through the pits after a run,and the damn thing was hitting so hard at idle they seem to make the cement vibrate from the pressure those open headers were putting down on the ground. A friend of mine and I were away from town once chasing down old car parts,and we stopped at a local Hardees after buying Auto Shoppers at a local 7-11. We were sitting there eating and my friends suddenly started giggling,and when I asked him what was so funny he pointed to a ad he was looking at. Typical T-bucket made from a touring front half with a beer keg gas tank and probably 98 inch wheelbase,but there was a 4 barrel carb sticking out past the cowl on both sides,and the ad read "413 max wedge Dodge engine,727 transmission,and 4.56 rear gears with ladder bars and street slicks" that must have been about 12-14 inches wide. What got my friend and me too was the final sentence that read "Car is fast". Gee,ya think? That thing would hurt you at launch if the tires got traction,and it would be a real challenge to handle at speed with that short wheelbase. Edited April 29, 2017 by knuckleharley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted April 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the comments in this thread have strayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 15 hours ago, Mike36 said: Many years ago I had a 57 Ford Custom 300, powered by a 292 with 4 bbl and dual exhaust, 3 speed overdrive. It ran pretty good for the day, but I can't imagine a 272 shutting down a 426 wedge. That Ford either had a 4.88 or lower gears , or engine mods, or both. Not gonna happen if the Ford was stock. I rode in several of both, and those 426's were very quick. Ok,to start with,these were typical fast street cars of the 1950's,not big block race cars of the 60's. Secondly,the racing was top end,not quarter mile,and where I was living,on a bridge after dark when there was no traffic. There were no 4:88 gears on anything. Stock rears and stock gearing. Finally,all the engines mentioned were stock factory optional high-performance engines in stock bodies with street tires. BTW,WTH is the deal with the hot links? Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 29 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said: I think it was just a way to get more people in the stands. I think it was the only thing the NHRA could do to keep Larry Lunchbucket racing. The 60's stock car classes were dominated by factory race cars cloaked as street cars. The typical hot street car a working class guy might own stood about as much of a chance running his daily driver car against those "stock" cars as PeeWee Herman would have had against Larry Holmes in a boxing ring. If you wanted to keep people coming to the track to cheer for their friends and relatives,you have to find a way those friends and relatives can run and occasionally win. I personally LOVED bracket racing because of the fact that I COULD run my daily driver car,and the additional fact that I usually earned enough in winnings each week to make the car payments. Plus it was fun to beat a Ram Air 4 GTO in a Toyota Corolla with a auto trans. All I had to do to race prep was pop the hubcaps off and throw them in the trunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, knuckleharley said: BTW,WTH is the deal with the hot links? Anyone know? shows lots of activity on the thread............................. or suggestion that there is a lot of hot air being circulated or the temperature of the thread originator for going off topic.....cheer up...the cheese is in the mail... Edited April 29, 2017 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted April 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 I don't care if a thread strays because often that information is very helpful to me, just don't say it didn't stray when it DID. This thread was specific, "53 Stock Plymouth Speed" can't be any clearer than that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 My 54 Belvedere has 3.73 gears and a flathead six. Other than that it is not very stock. Soon after I got the car(27+ years ago) even though it ran just fine, I decided to rebuild and hotrod the 218. I had the head planed down(don't remember how much), sent the cam to Crower to get a hot regrind(don't remember the numbers, though 282 comes to mind), ported the intake and ported and polished the exhaust ports. Running just the single stock carb(the lower flatter B&B) I remember seeing the needle go past the end of the speedo to what I guessed as 105. This was with shorter radial tires so it may have only been doing an actual 90 or so. BUT- The motor was able to get the revs to a level that would be a hundred or so with the tall bias that are on it now. Also now I have three sidedraft Mikunis and headers so it will pull past the RPM I want to limit it to. I don't have much need to drive that car that fast anymore, let alone the place. I'm in Massachusetts and the straight flat roads are few and far between. Oh yeah, and I have three young kids, no more chances. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 On 4/28/2017 at 9:40 PM, 55 Fargo Spitfire said: Well holy smokes moose, what about the Hotrod? I cannot imagine doing a 100 in my truck, 80 is crazy enough... Are you kidding me? That hotrod was a Model A Ford. I couldn't imagine going that fast with suspension that was designed for Henry Ford. Oh, and it had 3.9 gears and not as good a motor. And I sold it a couple of years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, moose said: Are you kidding me? That hotrod was a Model A Ford. I couldn't imagine going that fast with suspension that was designed for Henry Ford. Oh, and it had 3.9 gears and not as good a motor. And I sold it a couple of years ago. LOTS of people have driven well over 100 MPH on stock 30's and 40's Ford suspensions. Probably the first time I was ever in a vehicle that went over 120 mph was in the cab of a full-fendered 34 Ford pu with a 40 Ford rear,and a FI 327 Chevy engine under the hood. I do admit it was scary as hell,though. It was on a old wooden bridge with a rough surface,and sometimes it would hit a bump and the wind would get under those big fenders,and the truck would just "float" into the other lane. When it would hit,the guy would jerk the wheel to the right slightly,and it would float back to the right lane again. A little bit of that goes a long ways,and convinced me nobody took the fenders off those early 30's cars to look cool. They did it to keep them on the road. I have a dropped "Dago" beam front axle under the front of my 32 Ford coupe with a 54 Chevy pu steering box,and it has a engine in it that most likely makes in the neighborhood of 400 HP. Probably more with the Dart 2 heads and the roller rockers. BTW,the engine in the photo is a junker 283 I used as a dummy to build mounts,headers,etc,etc,etc. I just stuck the 6x2 intake on it for grins because I had it laying around. It's not even bolted on. The "real" engine has dual quads on it. I have a modern 4-bar rear under the rear,though. Edited May 2, 2017 by knuckleharley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Knuckle Harley you go first.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 23 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said: Knuckle Harley you go first.......... I have,many,many times. I grew up in the early 50's,and my brother was 12 years older than me,and he and all his friends were into hot rod coupes back then. Had three channeled and fenderless coupes within a block of my house,and all of them were running 6 carb intakes. One had a Caddy engine,one a Chysler hemi,and the other was running a Olds engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Update- My overdrive has been repaired, and is functional again! We'll just have to see if I can find an open road. The overdrive lowers engine speed by 0.7, and effectively gives it a rear end ratio of 2.61. In OD it should have the same engine speed at 100mph as direct drive at 70mph. The RPM calculator says that is just over 3200.<--Loads of torque right there. On 5/2/2017 at 5:55 PM, moose said: My 54 Belvedere has 3.73 gears and a flathead six. Other than that it is not very stock. Soon after I got the car(27+ years ago) even though it ran just fine, I decided to rebuild and hotrod the 218. I had the head planed down(don't remember how much), sent the cam to Crower to get a hot regrind(don't remember the numbers, though 282 comes to mind), ported the intake and ported and polished the exhaust ports. Running just the single stock carb(the lower flatter B&B) I remember seeing the needle go past the end of the speedo to what I guessed as 105. This was with shorter radial tires so it may have only been doing an actual 90 or so. BUT- The motor was able to get the revs to a level that would be a hundred or so with the tall bias that are on it now. Also now I have three sidedraft Mikunis and headers so it will pull past the RPM I want to limit it to. I don't have much need to drive that car that fast anymore, let alone the place. I'm in Massachusetts and the straight flat roads are few and far between. Oh yeah, and I have three young kids, no more chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just ran my numbers, 4.11, 28.3 inch tires, 3800 rpm would be 78 mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, greg g said: Just ran my numbers, 4.11, 28.3 inch tires, 3800 rpm would be 78 mph. you could truly benefit from an OD installation.....cut them RPM and still let the big dog roll.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 On 4/29/2017 at 9:30 AM, MackTheFinger said: Yeah, it seems wrong somehow.. That 426 was a FAST car. yes...but its like running an ox cart against a 4 horse Roman chariot.....somewhere you got to level the playing field. With all things mechanically equal..it comes down to the best man reaction....and the unforeseen other mechanical failures. I mean, you can run a 426 against a John Deere garden tractor in bracket racing and have competition...dull as it may be, still competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said: yes...but its like running an ox cart against a 4 horse Roman chariot.....somewhere you got to level the playing field. With all things mechanically equal..it comes down to the best man reaction....and the unforeseen other mechanical failures. I mean, you can run a 426 against a John Deere garden tractor in bracket racing and have competition...dull as it may be, still competitive. I used to bracket race a 70 Toyota Corolla with the 4 cylinder engine and auto trans I bought new. I would run in Bracket 5,and dial in somewhere close to eternity. I'd take off in drive with music playing on my 8-track,and just let it shift itself. Almost always won my bracket. The guy that gave me the biggest trouble has a stock 53 Ford pu with Fordomatic. I could take him at top end,but would sometimes run too fast and DQ myself. I was hilarious to watch the rear view mirror and see those 427 Chevelles and Ram Air 4 Pontiac "stock" cars that the dealers had trailered to the track take off when I was already 3/4 of the way down the track. CLOUDS of tire smoke,and they would blow past me at the finish line so fast it would scare me,but they had almost always panicked and ran too fast. I usually made my car payments bracket racing that Toyota. Edited August 17, 2017 by knuckleharley 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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