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Autolite IAT Distributors


st63

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Just changed the points in my 1950 Plymouth, and ran into an issue I hadn't seen before on my 41 P-12 or any other vintage cars....having to practically disassemble the whole distributor just to remove the points.  Neither the shop manual nor the supplemental electrical service manual for the '50 covers actual removal of the points....just the adjustment method.  In order to access the screw holding the upper lead and spring arm, I had to remove the entire breaker plate, meaning I had to remove the vacuum advance, the terminal screw and even the hold down clamps, which are screwed in rather than riveted in.    The distributor is the Autolite IAT-4003, which was used from late 1950 onward.   (I also wound up having to replace the cracked phenolic insulator on the underside of the terminal screw...the one with the square cutout in it and which no one makes anymore...I had to make one from scratch out of 1/8th LE phenolic sheet....but that's a whole 'nother story!) 

In any case, did I miss something here?  Is there actually an easier way of removing these points in IAT series distributors that I overlooked?  Took me an hour and a whole bunch of tools to get this job done, something I'm not used to when just changing points!

 

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I have been dealing with  IAT distributors since 1964 and have never had the difficulty that you have described.  In the old days when I could see and was flexible I would do them in the car !    Someone along the line has altered something.

It is true that the screw holding the end of the points spring is in an awkward position but it does not need to be completely removed and an ignition wrench is required to turn it.  If you do them on the bench the points plate can be lifted enough that this screw can be set with a screwdriver.

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Page 94 of the service manual, right hand illustration shows the distributor I'm talking about Don. It's the breaker arm spring screw that isn't accessible without all the gyrations I mentioned.  Looking again at it, I think the corners of the spring screw may be rounded off.  Felt like a Russian gymnast trying to do this....

Edited by st63
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A small 1/4" ignition wrench will loosen and or remove that sideways screw. I have also used my special small screw driver that works too.

NO need to remove the breaker plate.

It is easier to pull the dizzy to do this job and is very fast if you mark the dizzy location accurately before removal.

Done hundreds of them..

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5 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

A small 1/4" ignition wrench will loosen and or remove that sideways screw. I have also used my special small screw driver that works too.

NO need to remove the breaker plate.

It is easier to pull the dizzy to do this job and is very fast if you mark the dizzy location accurately before removal.

Done hundreds of them..

Kinda figured you would have the answer Bob....

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Whilst this doesn't help the original question posted I replaced the original points dissy in the 41 Plymouth with a HEI from Don Langdon, it was a pain free installation that improved the starting and running of the stock car immeasurably ..........I would not hesitate to recommend this to anyone although I have heard of some on this forum having issues with Langdons I found the ordering and delivery very quick and pain free especially since I am in Oz.........I also understand that there are other options such as Petronics conversions and also the Use of a Slant 6 dissy as well.......personally the only upside to a points ignition to me is the enjoyment I get asking the 18yr old snotty nose brat at the local parts shop for a points file or set of points..............they have no idea.........and its good to be able to teach the brat something...........I suppose I need to get my kicks somehow............lol..........regards, Andy Douglas  

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Actually Andy, your comment is spot on...this is probably the last time I'll change the points in this car.  It's in need of a new wiring harness, and sooner rather than later.  I figure once I bite the bullet and do that, I may as well switch over to a Pertronix pointless system....they're located only about 5 miles from me, and I can literally just walk in for tech support if necessary. 

Edited by st63
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Yep, I remember when I got my 1940 Dodge sedan in 1971, I was 17, bright eyed and bushy tailed..........lol.........changing the points was a snap, well, more of a snap then than what it was in 2007 when I got the Plymouth coupe........by then it had become a pain in the arse......I wasn't 17 any more but the dissy still lived in the same spot that it did when I bought the Dodge, so when I joined this forum and found out about the electronic dissys I decided that I needed one...........funny thing is I still have the 1940 Dodge, its had a 318 poly etc in it since 1973 and runs a Mallory twin point dissy but whenever I have to change the points on that I just pull the dissy and do it that way although I've had an aftermarket electronic dissy sitting on the shelf for it for probably 10 yrs now.............one day........lol.............I did look into a Pertronix setup but as I could only find them for the Plymouth dissy listed on ebay at the time and shipping was a PITA and Langdons would send to Oz so they got the nod...............andyd.   

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1 hour ago, st63 said:

Actually Andy, your comment is spot on...this is probably the last time I'll change the points in this car.  It's in need of a new wiring harness, and sooner rather than later.  I figure once I bite the bullet and do that, I may as well switch over to a Pertronix pointless system....they're located only about 5 miles from me, and I can literally just walk in for tech support if necessary. 

I must warn you that the Pertronix made in the past are not exactly the same today.  I had to go back to points on the last 3 I installed.  I had issues in the higher RPM's with one, the other was hard to start when the engine reached normal operating temperature, and the last set up just quit working altogether.

I installed a set of points into a 1949 Dodge Coronet today.  The guy was so thrilled!  It's amazing what can be done with a dwell meter, a vacuum gauge, and a good quality timing light.  The right tools for this job make all the difference.  I am not saying that I haven't "match booked" a set of points before and got lucky.  LOL.  But must admit, the new points sold today seem to have a lighter spring and are dicey on quality....

I hear folks rave about HEI conversions and the Pertronix too.  But I will keep on with points until I can no longer find any good "NOS" units out there.

I am sorry to read about your woes st63, I sincerely hope that you will enjoy the fruit of your labor for years to come after this last tune up.

 

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Thanks...I've always been of the mindset that "If it aint broke..." and had no problem using a points ignition  for many years. A big part of the issue nowadays is that quality ignition components are getting harder to find...

Edited by st63
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On 4/27/2017 at 5:19 PM, Dodgeb4ya said:

A small 1/4" ignition wrench will loosen and or remove that sideways screw. I have also used my special small screw driver that works too.

NO need to remove the breaker plate.

It is easier to pull the dizzy to do this job and is very fast if you mark the dizzy location accurately before removal.

Done hundreds of them..

Just as you said, this normally could have been done by just loosening the breaker spring screw...I wound up pulling the dizzy out altogether to replace that screw...found that the screw was rounded off. Normally could have been loosened by my 1/4 inch wrench.  Photo of the little bugger below. And you're right, this job is a lot easier when done with the unit out of the car altogether....I'm not as flexible as I used to be.  Thanks for the tip!

 

IMG_0316.JPG

Edited by st63
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I did not think I would be into a distributor so soon.   Took my 52 Fargo for another long ride  , I have run it 600 miles since restoration and all was well until this morning .  It started to miss and cut up like it was out of gas and finally stalled.  Fortunately I was able to coax it into a lay by and phoned for a wrecker.  I was sure it was a bad fuel pump and was able to get it to run enough to get it up on the roll back truck.  At home I changed the fuel pump, checked the filters and hose and even added gas to the tank.  It just plain would not run well enough to drive. Remembering this thread, I pulled the distributor, which was a "rebuilt " unit.   I replaced the condenser and it runs great again.  Cost me $100 for the wrecker and I am certain a number of friends saw the truck coming  home in disgrace.   Humility, I am told , is a virtue.  Pride goeth before a fall.  In this case the Fargo Farted and stopped.  and the 1/4 inch screw head is rounded off on this so called rebuilt unit.  What a day !

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Never use modern day new condensers in a Mopar flathead.... seen 5 fail with in a few days.... worst were the NAPA Echlin brand.

Re-use your old working one. Hopefully you have one:D

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Guys............this is why I replaced the points etc with a HEI.........I could leave the door closed, window down, reach in and turn the key and the car would start straight away(it had a late model key start installed when I got it) even without me pumping the pedal and discussing its parentage like I had to when it had the points dissy.................the car also had a 1960's Oz GM Holden Stromberg single barrel carby which was on it when bought.................BUT....the HEI was the BEST thing I did to the car.............my 2 oz cents worth.......andyd

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I have not had any real serious  issues with my ignition systems being stock in several of my cars.. I like em that way although I have a couple with vintage Mallory distributors and a Spaulding Flamethrower that are cool looking and operate 100% with points and condensers.

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7 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Never use modern day new condensers in a Mopar flathead.... seen 5 fail with in a few days.... worst were the NAPA Echlin brand.

Re-use your old working one. Hopefully you have one:D

Great :( just pick up some spare Napa Echlin distributor parts this past week.

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I think I will add a condenser to my travel "kit" with an alligator clip do if I have the same problem again, I will cut the condenser wire inside the  distributor and clip the replacement on externally.   On my Ferguson tractor I had similar troubles and mounted the condenser outside the distributor case,  It has run that way for years.

I seldom change the condenser if the points have worn away evenly but in this case, the whole distributor was replaced with a "rebuilt" unit.  Even has a tag on it.   Enough to make even a good natured guy grumpy.  

Just looking at Don's diagram, I realize that the "rebuilt" unit is also missing the grounding jumper wire from the body to the moveable plate.  Guess I will haul that unit  outta there again. It is  just possible that that was at the root of this problem .  I was too flustered yesterday to notice.

Edited by dpollo
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My travel kit includes a complete distributor.  Side of the road ignition problems can be dealt with in less than five minutes.  Have never used it, but carrying it gives peace of mind.  I picked up three dizzys from a wrecking yard years ago for ten bucks a piece. Iset them all up with new parts, ran all four on an old Sun Dist Machine, best one went into the car,second best is in the travel kit, and the other two sit on a shelf awaiting their fate. In apx 40k miles, I have changed the tune up parts on the installed dist twice.  Never even considered electronic stuff.

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6 hours ago, 1949 Goat said:

Great :( just pick up some spare Napa Echlin distributor parts this past week.

Definitely  a "hit or miss" with those....best luck I've had (other than NOS) are with Standard Motor Products. Most of it still made in the USA...for now anyway.  

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1 hour ago, st63 said:

Definitely  a "hit or miss" with those....best luck I've had (other than NOS) are with Standard Motor Products. Most of it still made in the USA...for now anyway.  

I just order Standard Motor distributor parts from Rock Auto, About a third the price from Canadian Napa

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16 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Never use modern day new condensers in a Mopar flathead.... seen 5 fail with in a few days.... worst were the NAPA Echlin brand.

Re-use your old working one. Hopefully you have one:D

Wow! Another sign of modern progress. For many years NAPA Echlin was a guarantee of quality. Sad to see them fall.

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I went through that "rebuilt" distributor with a fine tooth comb today, right down to the weights.  Apart from a nice tight bushing and a new vacuum chamber, the rest of it was junk !   The condenser screw was too long and was dragging on the lower immovable plate.  The points showed way more wear than 600 miles.  I think this unit was considered faulty and was returned and then remained on a shelf in its replacement's box until it wound up on a swap meet table.  I have discovered a lot of the so called NOS electrical parts that I have bought over the years are faulty in some way and may have been "returns" which stayed on shelves until cleared out as obsolete.  Buyer beware.

I found a good used unit with good points and an old looking condenser.  Truck runs better than ever now.  Now if all of this did not suggest that I am less than smart, I spent the rest of the day trying to get a new cell phone to do what the old one did in its prime. The young lady who helped me was very patient when I explained that I was born during the first half of the last century.  I  first talked into a phone with a crank on it and I still believe overhead valves are a passing fad.

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19 hours ago, dpollo said:

I went through that "rebuilt" distributor with a fine tooth comb today, right down to the weights.  Apart from a nice tight bushing and a new vacuum chamber, the rest of it was junk !   The condenser screw was too long and was dragging on the lower immovable plate.  The points showed way more wear than 600 miles.  I think this unit was considered faulty and was returned and then remained on a shelf in its replacement's box until it wound up on a swap meet table.  I have discovered a lot of the so called NOS electrical parts that I have bought over the years are faulty in some way and may have been "returns" which stayed on shelves until cleared out as obsolete.  Buyer beware.

I found a good used unit with good points and an old looking condenser.  Truck runs better than ever now.  Now if all of this did not suggest that I am less than smart, I spent the rest of the day trying to get a new cell phone to do what the old one did in its prime. The young lady who helped me was very patient when I explained that I was born during the first half of the last century.  I  first talked into a phone with a crank on it and I still believe overhead valves are a passing fad.

I had the exact same problem with a new condenser screw included with a new condenser...luckily I still had the original. I've learned the hard way to keep everything. 

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On 4/29/2017 at 8:51 AM, dpollo said:

I think I will add a condenser to my travel "kit" with an alligator clip do if I have the same problem again, I will cut the condenser wire inside the  distributor and clip the replacement on externally.   On my Ferguson tractor I had similar troubles and mounted the condenser outside the distributor case,  It has run that way for years.

I seldom change the condenser if the points have worn away evenly but in this case, the whole distributor was replaced with a "rebuilt" unit.  Even has a tag on it.   Enough to make even a good natured guy grumpy.  

Just looking at Don's diagram, I realize that the "rebuilt" unit is also missing the grounding jumper wire from the body to the moveable plate.  Guess I will haul that unit  outta there again. It is  just possible that that was at the root of this problem .  I was too flustered yesterday to notice.

Thought I posted this yesterday but I must have not hit the submit reply button. On my dual point converted distributor the condenser is mounted externally. I also use an electric drill (550 RPM's) to adjust the dwell (point gap) with the distributor spinning for greater accuracy. I also use a vacuum generator to add the correct shims to the vacuum advance to correctly set the curve.

dual_points_1.jpg

vacpump.jpg

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