Official Transmission Conversion Thread

[55 Fargo]

Oh so you think the value of an S10 T5is $10.00 Ed? 

This thread and my post is not an Ad just for your info or anyone else's.

if you are remotely interested, please take ot off this thread, and send me a PM, can give you the owners telephone number.

[Young Ed]

1 minute ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Oh so you think the value of an S10 T5is $10.00 Ed? 

This thread and my post is not an Ad just for your info or anyone else's.

if you are remotely interested, please take ot off this thread, and send me a PM, can give you the owners telephone number.

sorry it looked like an ad to me. And from the previous pictures and how much you care about the T5 I figured it would be available cheap

[TodFitch]

Looks to me like this thread would benefit from people stepping away from their keyboards for a while. . .

[55 Fargo]

2 minutes ago, TodFitch said:

Looks to me like this thread would benefit from people stepping away from their keyboards for a while. . .

Yup I agree, but for the record, will not post anything more on the T5 I worked on for a friend, and it's tentatively being for sale.

I will post more on my progress on the A833 as it progresses....thanx 

[BobK]

9 hours ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Discovered today, my A833 aluminum overdrive trans has a cast iron tail shaft.

I wonder why, mix and match or factory using up components....

I don't think any A833 trans had aluminum tail shafts. And  most of the overdrive A833 have a cast iron main case as well. The aluminum case came into being for the lightweight Feather Dusters. One potential problem when using the aluminum case in higher horsepower applications is that one of the gear shafts just rides in the aluminum case and can thus can enlarge the hole in the softer aluminum and can lead to oil leaks and other problems. Still, a rugged trans otherwise.

Way back in the factory drag race days.....the good old '60's.....there might have been a few aluminum case A833 for the factory teams, but most were cast iron, and I believe no aluminum tail shafts back then either.

Those with more knowledge, feel free to correct me.

[55 Fargo]

Just now, BobK said:

I don't think any A833 trans had aluminum tail shafts. And  most of the overdrive A833 have a cast iron main case as well. The aluminum case came into being for the lightweight Feather Dusters. One potential problem when using the aluminum case in higher horsepower applications is that one of the gear shafts just rides in the aluminum case and can thus can enlarge the hole in the softer aluminum and can lead to oil leaks and other problems. Still, a rugged trans otherwise.

Way back in the factory drag race days.....the good old '60's.....there might have been a few aluminum case A833 for the factory teams, but most were cast iron, and I believe no aluminum tail shafts back then either.

Those with more knowledge, feel free to correct me.

Well yes and no, A 833 23 spline overdrive units for cars, aluminum cased after 1975, the first year 1975 they were cast iron cased.

The same trans for trucks were aluminum cased with cast iron tailshafts, and 30 spline output shafts.

The A,B body A833 cast in trans can take one hell of a lot of torque, with some behind a 426 hemi or a 440 six pack, so they are heavy duty built and can handle a lot of torque.

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

there is a special performance aluminum castings out there complete with steel sleeves for the shaft to fit snugly curing the "pounding effect" that enlongates the aluminum holes as these were not press fit but had approx. .005 play from beginning.  The early cast irons body 833 units were limited in the OD production, one source lists it as a one year option and the shaft is not an issue due to the body being iron and that the shaft was a snug interference fit on assembly.....the aluminum casting can be salvaged and inserts made and fitted if caught before they self destruct..therein lies the big IF and second is that I cannot list a source for you to send these units off for this process....many do realize what is wrong and push it beyond its service limits...Hurst shifter are fitted for all years except 66,67 years, again per an online source one can easily search out to read...tail shafts are long and short variation for a-b/c bodies and trucks...some tail shafts will have the bosses for dual application.  tons of info on the various internet sites dedicated to the supply of parts to continue these in use and also a few forums if you put much stock in them...happy hunting...

[55 Fargo]

Jamie Passon, and/or Brewer performance, are the experts, parts and supplies for anyone needing such.

There will be accurate info, parts availability, rebuilt transmissions (non overdrive).

I suggest anyone wanting further info and details to contact either source, to get accurate info......

 

[49D-24BusCpe]

Bob K,

    ALL eighteen '65 A-990 Hemi Super Stock 4-speed cars were equipped with aluminum case AND aluminum tail shaft A-833 transmissions.

    Not a common transmission option for that Race Hemi package, as the automatics were more consistent and quicker with the 7" allowable legal NHRA tire. There were 12 stick Plymouths out of 102 total, and 6 Dodges out of 101. A total of 18 out of a 203 fleet total!

    I had a 'Slick Shift' version, and they were 'brutes'! You could full power shift them (no clutch) at 7200 rpm and they would live. They were even 'standard equipment' in Chevy Pro Stocks of that era! I went back to 727 automatics with the advent of high-stall torque converters (primarily B&M 069Js). Chrysler really had the competition covered with their transmission/driveline packages.

Walt R.     

[classiccarjack]

1 hour ago, 49D-24BusCpe said:

Bob K,

    ALL eighteen '65 A-990 Hemi Super Stock 4-speed cars were equipped with aluminum case AND aluminum tail shaft A-833 transmissions.

    Not a common transmission option for that Race Hemi package, as the automatics were more consistent and quicker with the 7" allowable legal NHRA tire. There were 12 stick Plymouths out of 102 total, and 6 Dodges out of 101. A total of 18 out of a 203 fleet total!

    I had a 'Slick Shift' version, and they were 'brutes'! You could full power shift them (no clutch) at 7200 rpm and they would live. They were even 'standard equipment' in Chevy Pro Stocks of that era! I went back to 727 automatics with the advent of high-stall torque converters (primarily B&M 069Js). Chrysler really had the competition covered with their transmission/driveline packages.

Walt R.     

Walt, you had a really awesome car!  The only year with a lot of one offs.  I wish that I could have had the opportunity to ride with you for just one pass in that car.

I used to be a part of a pit crew for a 1964 Aluminum fendered Max Wedge Plymouth.  And I also volunteered to pit crew for one race with a real deal 1968 Barracuda "BO" VIN code.  The name of that car was the Mean Fish.  Man I love those old factory built race cars!  Too cool!

Edited April 19, 2017 by classiccarjack

[55 Fargo]

Trans and shifter all cleaned up, found a new bearing retainer today in Winnipeg, $40 USD included a new seal.

Trans is going to a local "trans" builder, and will get the once over and the very least a seal and gasket set....shifter works great Hurst all the way Baby.

Fantastic well built and quality adapter plate, courtesy of AoK Racing Parts

[55 Fargo]

New Process A833 overdrive update:

Hey all, was able to get another front bearing retainer, and also tweaked thew new AoK Adapter plate to slip over easily.

The plate was just a slight too tight, and went around with the Dremel a few spins and is now very nice.

The bearing retainer replacement, must have been a few thousandths bigger, no big deal.

This is a real fine product, and is well made to a professional quality.

At Winnipegs oldest Trans shop, the owner looked at it, and said that is a very professional looking adapter, he was much impressed, and of course, anytime he has a customer looking for something like this he knows who to call.

I asked him about the a833, he said bullet proof, the predecessors , in the cast iron 4 pd, were most likely the strongest best built trans in all the muscle car era. The over drive unit slightly less robust, as the main shaft is sunder cut for the overdrive gear in the 3rd gear position, but still plenty tough.

I asked this gent about different trans options, and in my choice, he also felt was the best of the 3 transmissions I mentioned.

Interesting place, brand new gear sets for Mopar 8 1/4 diffs, and many others, so in my case, can go to 3.73 gears brand new, and right in stock.

The trans will next go in for inspection, and a seal gasket set at the very least.

I am getting a clutch disc made, so once this is done, the swap will happen...

[55 Fargo]

Okay so a few more pics of the trans and AoK adapter plate.

This shows how it will bolt onto my truck heavy duty bell pattern, and this plate will also bolt tot eh lighter duty truck pattern as well.

A very quality built piece, aluminum, so no issues with a rusting steel plate

This swap, can be done with the engine and bell housing in the vehicle, no need to pull the both or the bell alone as with a T5 conversion.

Change the clutch friction disc, bolt on the trans and adapter plate, install your new driveshaft hook up the speedo cable and away you go.

Now with the T5 for the trucks, you will need a kit from a source like Langdons, a collar spacer for the throwout bearing, ad pilot bushing, and a retainer ring for the trans hole in the bell housing.

Now there will be holes needed to be drilled and tapped into the bell, try this with the engine in the truck, and to top off matters, some trans bolt hole patterns need to be welded in and drilled a real PITA.

The A833 is a simpler and cleaner install, best of all its a Mopar for Mopar solution.

More pics when progress commences....

[wayfarer]

Looking at the adapter I do not see any means of registering said adapter to the bellhousing. You cannot rely on the bolts to provide registration and the front bearing will complain if the TIR exceeds 0.007".

So, what is planned?

 

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, wayfarer said:

Looking at the adapter I do not see any means of registering said adapter to the bellhousing. You cannot rely on the bolts to provide registration and the front bearing will complain if the TIR exceeds 0.007".

So, what is planned?

 

 

This product was designed and built by a very reputable machine tool business, and the tolerance spec is very precise?

I suggest you contact Tim Kingsbury, if you have issues and/or questions regarding it's design and quality control.

 

[55 Fargo]

As this swap moves along will update progress, have a drive shaft donor, waiting on a clutch disc....

[Robert Horne]

9 hours ago, wayfarer said:

Looking at the adapter I do not see any means of registering said adapter to the bellhousing. You cannot rely on the bolts to provide registration and the front bearing will complain if the TIR exceeds 0.007".

So, what is planned?

 

This is one reason I went with the TK5 Ford Ranger 5 speed trans, where I did not have to use an adapter.     The TK5 front retainer had to be machined to match the bell hole, about 1/16 difference.

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, Robert Horne said:

This is one reason I went with the TK5 Ford Ranger 5 speed trans, where I did not have to use an adapter.     The TK5 front retainer had to be machined to match the bell hole, about 1/16 difference.

LOL at least its not another Chevy solution, 

[Don Coatney]

1 hour ago, Robert Horne said:

This is one reason I went with the TK5 Ford Ranger 5 speed trans, where I did not have to use an adapter.     The TK5 front retainer had to be machined to match the bell hole, about 1/16 difference.

I also did not use an adapter plate. I used a dial indicator to insure the hole in my bell housing was dead nuts aligned with the center of the crankshaft and machined the hole to the size of the T-5 front retainer. 

[55 Fargo]

3 hours ago, Don Coatney said:

I also did not use an adapter plate. I used a dial indicator to insure the hole in my bell housing was dead nuts aligned with the center of the crankshaft and machined the hole to the size of the T-5 front retainer. 

Okay now it's complete the Ford/Mazda and Chevrolet swaps.

Don, is this your new setup for the 47 Dodge, or is this from the 48 Plymouth, is that car still 4 sale or did you sell it already.

Is this the plan for the 47 Dodge, is it getting a T5 swap, what do you plan to do with the "Fluid Drive" setup?

Will you be using another T5 which type, Ford ,S10, from a diesel or a gas?

Would not possibly an automatic trans swap be of interest to you now?

Wayfarer manufactures and markets an adapter plate for either a A904 or 727, even a GM turbo 350 or 400.

Good Luck with your new conversion for the 47....

Edited April 25, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[55 Fargo]

The above 2 examples for a T5 and a TKO Ford/Mazda swaps, were of course done at home, without precision equipment, and both are not utilizing an adapter plate. These 2 conversions include enlarging the bearing retainer holes in the stock bell housing in order to allow the transmissions to be placed flush with the bell housing, to create some mount holes, they do not use the OEM Mopar factory built precision trans mount holes. By taking measurement, and using dial indicators, these 2 were able to get the mission accomplished for there swaps.

The AoK A833 ada[pter plate is precision manufactured using factory Mopar bell housing patterns, with relation to the trans bolt holes and the bearing retainer and trans mount holes of the A833 transmission.

This was engineered and undertaken by qualified and experienced machinists, employing procedures and quality control to guarantee a very precise fit and tolerance.

This of course does not require extra holes be drilled and tapped into the bell housing, retainer holes machined open, those procedures done, can be conducive to issues of quality and potential misalignment issues could arise. A lot of playing around to get it right.

The Langdon conversion kit as mentioned before, has a bearing retainer ring to fill in the added mass to allow the T5 to sit into the Mopar truck bell housings, then holes must be drilled for the trans to mount, and in some case, holes to be welded closed first because they interfer with the holes needed to be drilled for the T5 trans, again some hassle and certainly more work.

I am not going to get into debates on my preference for the A833 trans, this trans is world renowned as a very high quality piece of engineering, compared often to the Rockcrusher  Muncie M20,21,22 and certainly is far more robust than any NWC T5 transmissions. These transmissions went behind 383s, 440s and 426 hemi engines, they are about performance and quality built.

Many of the AoK A833 trans plates were sold, and marketed, not 1 since 1975 has had an issue with bearing retainer alignment or any other quality control issues, they work and they work well.

Stay tuned, will post my progress as it unfolds........

Edited April 25, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Don Coatney]

On 3/16/2017 at 6:15 PM, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Hey All,

Just thought I would create a thread dedicated to T5 conversions, pitfalls, methods and what is needed to make it work whether you have a car or truck.

How many of the T5 conversions have been done by members say in the last year(s), and what are your results, what are the pros and what are the cons.

 

 

As this OFFICIAL Transmission conversion thread is dedicated to T-5 conversions I will add my comments.

Just to clarify and not debate all work on my bell housing to enlarge the bearing retainer and fabricate drill and tap new mounting holes was done with quality control at a precision machine shop following my directions. Dremel modifications were not required to correct any of this precision machine shop work. The non world class T-5 will handle the torque and horse power of my modified flathead six cylinder 255 CI engine with ease and I am very pleased with the gear ratios I have chosen. I completed this T-5 install in my 1948 P-15 several years and over 40,000 miles ago. At the time I did this conversion there were no "kits" or plates available so it was up to me to figure out what needed to be done. It was fun to do and I am very happy with the end result.

As a side note I also have a 1948 D-24. At this time I have no plans to upgrade the transmission however I do have an R-10 overdrive transmission in my garage. If I ever elect to install it I will keep the fluid drive as the car is a pleasure to drive. I use the clutch to back out of the garage and I can drive all over town with several stop signs and traffic lights without using the clutch. I use second and third gear only and I have mastered shifting between these gears without using the clutch. The unmodified 230 CI engine accelerates well in second gear from a dead stop.

[Young Ed]

7 hours ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

LOL at least its not another Chevy solution, 

I believe you mean Borg Warner same as the original Mopar overdrives.

[oldasdirt]

And here we go again. Don just look at your picture for a moment and stop ranting. Different dimension cuts at three different point. that we can see. Obvious fresh baby blue chevy paint color sprayed and over sprayed on the flywheel.    We get it, everything you do is the right thing to do, we all get it and I have seen hundreds of posts how great it is. I have also seen rants on how guys stole your ideas over on Hamb and I believe here.    It is too bad you and others thing that retainer is an alignment item because that was never its intention.  There is a wide tolerance on t5s and on a833, in fact the a833 was made for Chrysler and later after a 25 year period of time the aluminum case a833 was made for gmc. lots of parts are interchangeable although I can tell you will certainty the retainer is larger.  I would venture to say that is what Fred has run into.  The retainer hole on the AoK adapter plate is a red herring. That is not how they are precision aligning it, nor should they.  Again I get it, lots of guys who love to puff out their chests here and show how smart they are. Its all good, but then when I graduated as an automotive engineer I was only 2nd in my class of 83.   I am sure others here were 1st in their class.

Finally since this is the official transmission conversion thread and not the t5 conversion thread as some have mentioned, what I would like to know is how many others have actually replicated their process of conversion more than 1 or 2 times ?   I know Tom Langdon has been selling t5 adapters for over 25 years. I am not sure how many years he has been doing it for Mopars.  I know George Asche has been going it for at least that long and I have seen 1st hand an a833 conversion that Tim Kingsbury's Dad did in the 1970s which I just have to smile as guys line up to attack or use the back hand slap method on this a833 conversion while pretending to be interested and asking questions.  

No one is shocked that Don and Adams and others are lining up with their t5 stuff as someone  is doing something else. Its clear its just too much to ask for all of the usual suspect to stay in their respective corners.  Clearly this entire site has run its course, and the "shark has been jumped" yet again.

 

[55 Fargo]

22 minutes ago, oldasdirt said:

And here we go again. Don just look at your picture for a moment and stop ranting. Different dimension cuts at three different point. that we can see. Obvious fresh baby blue chevy paint color sprayed and over sprayed on the flywheel.    We get it, everything you do is the right thing to do, we all get it and I have seen hundreds of posts how great it is. I have also seen rants on how guys stole your ideas over on Hamb and I believe here.    It is too bad you and others thing that retainer is an alignment item because that was never its intention.  There is a wide tolerance on t5s and on a833, in fact the a833 was made for Chrysler and later after a 25 year period of time the aluminum case a833 was made for gmc. lots of parts are interchangeable although I can tell you will certainty the retainer is larger.  I would venture to say that is what Fred has run into.  The retainer hole on the AoK adapter plate is a red herring. That is not how they are precision aligning it, nor should they.  Again I get it, lots of guys who love to puff out their chests here and show how smart they are. Its all good, but then when I graduated as an automotive engineer I was only 2nd in my class of 83.   I am sure others here were 1st in their class.

Finally since this is the official transmission conversion thread and not the t5 conversion thread as some have mentioned, what I would like to know is how many others have actually replicated their process of conversion more than 1 or 2 times ?   I know Tom Langdon has been selling t5 adapters for over 25 years. I am not sure how many years he has been doing it for Mopars.  I know George Asche has been going it for at least that long and I have seen 1st hand an a833 conversion that Tim Kingsbury's Dad did in the 1970s which I just have to smile as guys line up to attack or use the back hand slap method on this a833 conversion while pretending to be interested and asking questions.  

No one is shocked that Don and Adams and others are lining up with their t5 stuff as someone  is doing something else. Its clear its just too much to ask for all of the usual suspect to stay in their respective corners.  Clearly this entire site has run its course, and the "shark has been jumped" yet again.

 

Thanks very much for your comments Sir.

I have responded to Don Coatney, in a few posts back, he is unwilling to answer my questions, not sure why.

I of course noticed all the irregular measurements, and had no idea what he was creating.

I am fully well aware of the issues Don created on the HAMB, and as he accused others of stealing his conversion ideas.

Young Ed, states a few comments, but suspect he has never driven any of his vehicles with his T5 transmissions, all of which are NWC S10 versions, so yes Chevrolet parts, but he sees it another way. This trans is the bottom of the barrel, the weakest cheapest of all the T5 Tremec transmissions,  very light duty, shifter with no stops, meant for low HP low torque applications. But somehow it's touted as the best, gotta scratch my head on that one.

Plymouthy Adams is lurking on this thread all the time, but has not interest in any of the trans conversions, at least has never posted otherwise, not sure what his angle is, as this is not a V6 auto trans conversion thread..

Again think this thread has lived it's life, and most likely will be locked away from future posts.