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langdon's headers w/ stock fuel pump


kendall

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12 minutes ago, kendall said:

I was having  Langdon's cast iron headers installed today only to get a call from the mechanic informing me that the front header interferes with my stock fuel pump. Any info. out there? Thanks

   If the header  hits the fuel pump you have three options. Remove the fuel pump and run an electric pump,switch to split exhausts where you can put the front outlet where you want it for clearances,or put the stock exhaust manifold back on it.

In case you don't know,"split manifolds" usually means using one end of a car exhaust manifold and one end of a truck exhaust manifold. The photo below is an example. Ok,not an exact example because it is a manifold that has been split and has an outlet brazed to one end. Obviously,using the "right" ends from both a truck and a car intake will result in an exhaust manifold set where both look like the one on the left below.

 

split exhaust.jpg

Edited by knuckleharley
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2 hours ago, Reg Evans said:

Mine fits on my D24 Flat 6.

 

J.Lo fuel pump.jpg

Nice looking header. Do you get any issues with vapour lock with it so close to the fuel pump, or do you run an electric pump?

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Seems like I need the same pump that Reg Evans has.From recollection, my 47 dodge truck pump has a filter bowl or regulator protruding from it. I could remotely locate the regulator and filter if I could find the pump only. e-Bay has a glass bowl mounted under an available pump. Would that scare someone from mounting something holding gas and possibly leaking so close to the exhaust? Do you think that particular pump protrudes from the block any more than Reg Evans' pump? What later years of vehicle would be interchangeable with a 47 dodge truck pump? I see some mid-fiftys pumps of desired design and lower price-point but may not be compatible. At this point, the shop is reinstalling the existing intake,exhaust manifolds and entire existing exhaust system and I'm to pick the car up tomorrow. What a bust! 

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41 minutes ago, 1949 Goat said:

Nice looking header. Do you get any issues with vapour lock with it so close to the fuel pump, or do you run an electric pump?

No vapor lock issues and it's been like this for 5 or more years with just the stock fuel pump. The fuel pump does not have the sediment bowl which would tangle with the exhaust pipe

Notice the expensive heat shield on the gas line.....thanks Alcoa

J.Lo pump .jpg

Edited by Reg Evans
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40 minutes ago, kendall said:

 

Seems like I need the same pump that Reg Evans has.From recollection, my 47 dodge truck pump has a filter bowl or regulator protruding from it. I could remotely locate the regulator and filter if I could find the pump only. e-Bay has a glass bowl mounted under an available pump. Would that scare someone from mounting something holding gas and possibly leaking so close to the exhaust? Do you think that particular pump protrudes from the block any more than Reg Evans' pump? What later years of vehicle would be interchangeable with a 47 dodge truck pump? I see some mid-fiftys pumps of desired design and lower price-point but may not be compatible. At this point, the shop is reinstalling the existing intake,exhaust manifolds and entire existing exhaust system and I'm to pick the car up tomorrow. What a bust! 

some of those truck pumps can be taken apart and the top rotated. 

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Young Ed gave a doable solution but I can't tell if rotating the fixed appendage attached to the side of the pump (cast lid and a glass bowl below), 60 degrees away from the exhaust pipe, brings the fuel exit inline with the same hot pipe, and another fitting.  I don't to want to 'toast me truck' so I'm going to use an electric pump (Carter p4070) It will be a much shorter fuel line run, right up the firewall and right to #2 carb. The headers and dual exhaust are accompanying a new dual carb. set-up and a milled head. I'm 'diggin' tidying up the engine bay. One of the true pleasures in life! Isn't hose and wire management fun? Thanks all for your input.

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I better wise up and take notes here as I will be traveling down a similar path...

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9 hours ago, kendall said:

Young Ed gave a doable solution but I can't tell if rotating the fixed appendage attached to the side of the pump (cast lid and a glass bowl below), 60 degrees away from the exhaust pipe, brings the fuel exit inline with the same hot pipe, and another fitting.  I don't to want to 'toast me truck' so I'm going to use an electric pump (Carter p4070) It will be a much shorter fuel line run, right up the firewall and right to #2 carb. The headers and dual exhaust are accompanying a new dual carb. set-up and a milled head. I'm 'diggin' tidying up the engine bay. One of the true pleasures in life! Isn't hose and wire management fun? Thanks all for your input.

Be sure to mount  the fuel pump lower than the gas tank. The pumps operate off of a syphoning effect. Ask me how I know.  

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36 minutes ago, Branded said:

Be sure to mount  the fuel pump lower than the gas tank. The pumps operate off of a syphoning effect. Ask me how I know.  

I'm guessing you had an small air leak in your line somewhere,or your tank wasn't vented. It would be a real concern if the carb was gravity fed,but a pump will pump it from anywhere unless it is air-locked or there is a hole in the line to prevent suction.

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The best location for mounting any electric fuel pump is the rear of the vehicle. The inlet and outlet of the pump must be mounted below the lowest point of the tank. This is necessary to allow for an adequate fuel supply. The pump is designed to push fuel and not designed to suck fuel out of the tank. It needs to be gravity-fed or if it’s pulling from the top of the tank, it needs to develop a siphon feed to the pump. The pump should be mounted on the chassis, in a vertical position with the pump motor on top. Avoid exposure of the pump and fuel lines to moving parts and to any hot areas, such as the exhaust. The pump should not be mounted in a closed area, such as the vehicle’s trunk. Follow the steps below for mounting the pump. 

I experienced problems and thought I was getting defective pumps. After 2 pumps I installed the pump as described above and problem solved. No leaks and tank was vented.

Edited by Branded
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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, casper50 said:

how is it possible to mount in the trunk and still be below the bottom of the tank?

The write up is just speaking in general. Some race cars are setup with the fuel cell mounted in the trunk so that would allow the pump to be mounted in the trunk if the pump was mounted in the spare tire well. All this is just hypothetical speaking.

The moral of the story is mount the pump lower than the tank.

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As far as electric fuel pumps are concerned up until the invent of these small aftermarket pumps in the past 20-30 yrs the main source for electric pumps was Europe or the UK....the UK ones were mostly by SU, the same company that made the SU carbys. SU fuel pumps came in 2 versions a sucker or pusher.....sucker went near the engine and pushers near the fuel tank......both looked very similar to each other and used a set of points that occasionally needed to be filed/cleaned or the pump gently tapped when the points would stick......my 1940 Dodge had a pusher SU pump mounted in the trunk when I first got it as well as having a stock style mechanical pump on the engine........ah.....the joys of tapping the SU pump every so often to unstick the points..........as far as the split system is concerned I used 2 different style 23" Plymouth exhaust manifolds to make this split setup, I cut the front of one and the rear of another from the centre heat riser then had a local blacksmith weld the open ends to give me a front & rear manifold.........the outlets shown were the standard mopar outlets and due to the car being RHD & the steering box living where the front Fenton style headers would have resided meant this method was the only way to get a proper dual setup..........there are at least 3 different 23" Plymouth exhaust manifolds that I am aware of.........regards, andyd      

IMG_1387.JPG

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3 hours ago, 50 coupe said:

Has anyone here made their own split exhaust manifolds? Wondering what brazing rod you used and other tips you could pass along? 

Why would you want to braze it when can buy cast iron welding rods and do a better job? Like metals form a better bond that dissimilar metals. Besides,if you use the cast iron welding rods you will be able to get your exhaust manifolds coated or painted so they look "factory". Paint doesn't stick well to brass,and I am guessing the various high temp coatings don't,either.

Cut the middle section out that has the heat riser.

Either soak the two pieces in alcohol for a couple of days to release any impurities soaked up over the years,or use some other substance. Remember,you will be welding it,and .the fewer impurities,the better. Some/most people probably think the heat from the next step will eliminate the impurities,and they are probably right. I'm anal.

Make steel plates that match the OD of each end of the exhaust manifold.

Bolt each half of the manifold to a steel plate to prevent warping,and then either heat it in a oven or using rosebud tips on acetylene torches until it is light red,and then do the welding.

Let each piece cool down to room temperature before unbolting them.

Either use wet and dry sandpaper over a flat surface like a pane of glass or sheet aluminum/steel,and work it back and forth until the whole mounting surface of each piece is shiny so you know it is flat,or take it to a machine shop and have each half milled flat. If you use the wet anc dry sandpaper method,use kerosene to lubricate the sand paper so it cuts smoother and lasts longer.

Use new bolts,washer,and exhaust gasket,and bolt it on.

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  • 2 weeks later...

As low as it can go and fastened to a running board strut.  The outlet on the tank is mounted just below the seam fastening the two tank halves together.  The inlet of the pump is at the same ht. as the tank outlet. Just 60" of fuel line needed to reach my fuel block mounted on the firewall. With this in mind, anyone think I'll need a regulator to supply two ball & ball carbs. Pump pressure is 8 lbs. 'maximum'. Too bad the impeller is above the motoring can't flip. fullsizeoutput_12c7.jpeg.f054ccfd865b88db7d5c869f8354d2f5.jpeg

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If it were me,I'd put an adjustable regulator between the fuel pump and the fuel filter,and then put fuel pressure gauges close to the fuel inlets of both carbs to see what they are doing. If you can get both of them receiving 4psi,you got it covered.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The photo's perspective distorts distance a bit. Pump is no lower than the bell housing, oil pan or fuel tank. No higher either though! It is isolated so seems vulnerable, especially the electrical terminals to snagging of branches and snapping turtles. Knuckleharley convinced me to install a regulator, as he described, but can only install one pressure gauge on firewall though. I'm already committed to a fuel-block mount. See bottom of photo.

fullsizeoutput_1438.jpeg

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