48Windsor Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just spent over half a day removing the floor pan to get to the clutch and brake pedal assembly. In all the previous owners wisdom, he sandwiched metal over the old rusty drivers side floorboard and globbed on undercoating all over everything. But, oh well. Will fix it later. The clutch pedal was 2" lower than brake pedal. Wanted to get it adjusted even. Should have left well enough alone. I've read most of the clutch adjust items in the posts. Thought I had a pretty good idea of what I was getting into. I got the clutch pedal adjusted even. But, the clutch adjust is where my novice skills are showing up again. I'm afraid the old clutch is getting towards the end of its life. But, it was still working. Now its very marginal. My question is, To get the most out of the worn clutch, do I adjust the clutch rod longer or shorter?? Or is it an effort in futility. I didn't notice it slipping before, but now, with the tire against a 2" ledge going into the garage, it slips enough to not get over it. Man, I'm too old to replace this thing laying on my back any more. Thanks for any help. Tom B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Is there a high school or a community college in your area with has a auto mechanic course? if it is,take it there and get an appointment to have it fixed. No labor fees,only parts. They normally don't mess much with antique cars because so much is not relevant to modern cars,but a clutch replacment is a clutch replacement. I once had the front chassis of a 72 C-10 pu straightened that was bent in 4 places and cracked after losing an arguement with a brick wall fixed for 12 dollars. Bear frame and front end wanted $485 to do it. This was in 1979. Had it done at Colorado State Prison,with the work done by inmates learning a trade. The 12 bucks was mostly for heat and welding rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmopar Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 The clutch pedal should have some play before it engages I forget exact amount but a 1_1/2 to 2" should be ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Is this car a fluid drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hiebert Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 You have to adjust the clutch pedal for free-play, not to be even with the brake pedal. Due to wear and tear on the linkage parts it may not sit even once free-play is set. If there is slop in the pedal due to wear, you adjust from where it normally sits. If I remember correctly, there should be 3/4 (preferably) to no more than 1" free-play, which is the distance from the pedal's normal position to where you first feel resistance. That resistance is the clutch starting to disengage/engage (depending on your point of view). If the free-play is off, you either will not be able to change gears (because the clutch won't disengage) or you'll grind 'em all the time, or the clutch will slip under load. You can monkey with the linkages and free-play to get the pedals even, but that can be time consuming and frustrating, especially if there is a lot of wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingster Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Would you do me a favor and take a photo of the bolts/washers that were used to hold down your floor board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Windsor Posted February 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Yes it's a fluid drive car. Check the oil in the fluid coupler and it's full.It appears I have no free play. As soon as I hit the clutch pedal the Clutch Fork starts to move. Is the free play set with the clutch depressed Or with it fully out?Sorry I've forgotten how all this is supposed to work. There is a little slop in the linkage but not all that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Windsor Posted February 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Sure I'll take some nuts and bolts pics. Some are reasonable originalAnd some are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Free play is adjusted with clutch pedal fully out. You mentioned that the clutch would slip when trying to climb a two inch bump. If you are driving down the road in 3rd gear at 30 MPH and floor the accelerator does the clutch slip. Do you use the clutch every time you come to a stop sign? Have you ever tried leaving the car in 3rd gear with the clutch out and coming to a full stop. Then without using the clutch or shifting gears accelerate back up to speed? I can drive my fluid drive Dodge all over town making several stops without using the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 I want to say adjust the Rod shorter. In increments of about 1/16" to an 1/8" at a time, until it engages properly. If no improvement then its is probably a linkage problem (perhaps bent fork or worn pivot bushings) or worn clutch facing. Usually on these old Fluid Drives you would experience what is known as Clutch judder before they are worn out. Judder is a bucking/slippage upon take off, then between 14-20mph then again at say 30-40mph. No Judder, I would inspect all components for wear or being bent first. Good Luck! Clutch work is a real rascal for us guys over 60. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Tom Skinner said: Good Luck! Clutch work is a real rascal for us guys over 60. Tom Hey! I resent that! The only things that bother me are seeing clearly,bending over,holding a tool or wrench due to arthritis,making sure my shoulder is properly "aligned" before putting any pressure on it to keep it from dislocating,getting back up on my feet after laying under a car without blowing a knee out or just falling over,and remembering what why I crawled under the car to start with. Other than those minor things,it's a piece of cake. Edited February 19, 2017 by knuckleharley 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 L.O.L. me too. And don't forget to stand up slowly after getting off the floor, or you can get dizzy. No drinking (adult beverages) before laying under cars is my rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldSmith Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 I resemble that remark! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P15-D24 Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 First get a manual and parts book and verify all the part are installed, especially the springs. In the manual will be a procedure for adjusting the over spring, and you can download a tool template from the downloads page. I would also check the ball pivots to make sure the bronze inserts are not worn or missing. When those are correct it pretty easy to to free play, especially if you have the floor out and remove the vent on the side of the bell housing. Then you can see the throwout and clutch fingers for the adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Windsor Posted February 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Good to know I'm not the only one not enjoying laying on a concrete floor. Note to self, close doors before getting under car or it can severely limit the range of motion when getting up. After monkeying around with this thing, I finally got it back to where it was before. At least it not slipping any more.Whether its correct who knows. Took it for a jaunt around the section out here and everything appears to be functioning again. Put it in 3rd position and never touched the clutch till I got back home.While it was jacked up I spent several hours cleaning up 50 years of hard grease and gravel off the front end components. Found a couple zirks covered up that hadn't been touched in a while. Greased it up and added lube to the steering box. Big improvement on the ease of steering. Thanks all for your patience, its been a while since I've had a vehicle with a clutch. Bingster - here's a pic of the washers and bolts holding the floor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, 48Windsor said: After monkeying around with this thing, I finally got it back to where it was before. At least it not slipping any more.Whether its correct who knows. Took it for a jaunt around the section out here and everything appears to be functioning again. Put it in 3rd position and never touched the clutch till I got back home. Sounds to me like it is properly adjusted and working well now. Are you ever stopping and taking off again without using the clutch? I am NOT trying to be a wise ass,but you do know that with a fluid drive transmission you only have to use the clutch when you back up or take off for the first time,right? The transmission will shift from first gear to high gear without you touching the clutch pedal or the gearshift,and it will shift back down to 1 gear and idle in gear just like an automatic transmission when you come to a stop,and then shift up to high gear again after you take off. I honestly have no idea why everyone in snowy and hill country back in the 40's didn't own a Mopar with fluid drive. Edited February 19, 2017 by knuckleharley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingster Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Thanks for the photo. That helps a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 hour ago, knuckleharley said: Sounds to me like it is properly adjusted and working well now. Are you ever stopping and taking off again without using the clutch? I am NOT trying to be a wise ass,but you do know that with a fluid drive transmission you only have to use the clutch when you back up or take off for the first time,right? The transmission will shift from first gear to high gear without you touching the clutch pedal or the gearshift,and it will shift back down to 1 gear and idle in gear just like an automatic transmission when you come to a stop,and then shift up to high gear again after you take off. I honestly have no idea why everyone in snowy and hill country back in the 40's didn't own a Mopar with fluid drive. That is not exactly how fluid drive works. It is recommended the clutch is used when shifting gears as there is nothing automatic about shifting gears unless you have an upgraded transmission and not a standard 3 speed. I have a standard 3 speed transmission in my D-24 but I do not use the clutch pedal when shifting gears as I learned how to do that many years ago. I don't recall the name or numbers for the upgraded transmissions but I believe they became available in the 49 models and newer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Don Coatney said: That is not exactly how fluid drive works. It is recommended the clutch is used when shifting gears as there is nothing automatic about shifting gears unless you have an upgraded transmission and not a standard 3 speed. I have a standard 3 speed transmission in my D-24 but I do not use the clutch pedal when shifting gears as I learned how to do that many years ago. I don't recall the name or numbers for the upgraded transmissions but I believe they became available in the 49 models and newer. I have never driven my 42 that has fluid drive,and it has been a long time since I drove my 49 fluid drive,but I SEEM to remember only using the clutch to take off the first time in the 49,and have been assuming that because both the 42 and the 49 were advertised and sold as having fluid drive,that both would work the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldSmith Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Fluid Drive coupling and 3-speed transmission (Dodge) - Clutch engaged, place the selector in 3rd, let off the clutch, and drive all day. Fluid Drive coupling and 4-speed semi-automatic transmission (DeSoto, Chrysler)- Clutch engaged, place the selector in "Drive" (where 3rd would be), let off the clutch, and the car starts off in 3rd, and automatically shifts into 4th. Slow down, and it downshifts into 3rd. Or tromp on the accelerator at speeds less than 45 mph, and it downshifts to 3rd. Forget 1st and 2nd, unless you are pulling stumps. If you are stopped for a long train, shift into neutral (using the clutch). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Windsor Posted February 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Bingster, no problem. IIf you need anything else just holler. Kuckle - Yeah, it amazes me how it takes care of itself. I do use the clutch when shifting to reverse or between 2nd and 3rd positions on the shift pattern. Marble Dropper is a fitting name, listening for the shift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingster Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Your Windsor is so close in body design to my S-11 that our parts must be more or less interchangeable to a great degree. What I am in need of most is where certain bolts and washers go. I didn't label them all in my haste to take the car apart. Those floor pan bolts match mine. Maybe I can post some photos of others and you can tell me where they go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 54 minutes ago, DonaldSmith said: Fluid Drive coupling and 3-speed transmission (Dodge) - Clutch engaged, place the selector in 3rd, let off the clutch, and drive all day. Fluid Drive coupling and 4-speed semi-automatic transmission (DeSoto, Chrysler)- Clutch engaged, place the selector in "Drive" (where 3rd would be), let off the clutch, and the car starts off in 3rd, and automatically shifts into 4th. Slow down, and it downshifts into 3rd. Or tromp on the accelerator at speeds less than 45 mph, and it downshifts to 3rd. Forget 1st and 2nd, unless you are pulling stumps. If you are stopped for a long train, shift into neutral (using the clutch). Thanks for making this clearer. It's been well over a decade since I drove the 49,but I would have sworn it shifted and downshifted once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingster Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Those bolts and washers you posted. Are there two sizes? My parts book says there should be sixteen 1/4-20 floor board hold down bolts. Do I see two sizes of washers there, i.e., bolts? And the solenoid cover, the curved one (assuming yours is the same as mine) it takes five bolts. Should also be 1/4-20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Windsor Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 My floorboards are a freakin mess so I won't be able to help you a whole lot. They are patched up with a crapload of bolts with nuts under the car. Took me an hour with the wife to take it all lose. The few original bolts were the same size. There was one short one that I believe was on the top/middle of the tranny hump. The solenoid cover sounds about right, I'll have take a look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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