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Can someone help me identify this head


Newbee

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I was lucky enough to me across this aluminium head with the casting markings of Desoto Chrysler so it appears to be a part that was produced for a 25. I was also able to obtain from the same seller the matching marked dual carb, split manifold with the original air cleaners. I have obtained a 53 Windsor that has the 25 so I can install it into a 50 Suburban that needs me to lift the radiator cap and drive another body under it. 

IMG_1316.JPG

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Looks like a factory aluminum  head to me. Never seen one myself,but I have been told some were made to go on the bigger trucks to increase compression and power,along with dual carb and dual exhaust setups.

I am GUESSING that is what you bought. If you would post photos of your intake and the carbs,it would probably tell the tale.

Let me know if you don't plan on using the cast iron exhaust manifolds. I may be interested in buying them.

Edited by knuckleharley
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12 minutes ago, Newbee said:

Here is a shot of the intake. I will let you know about the extra parts. 

IMG_1160.JPG

Yup,that is the complete setup for the engines used in big trucks,and I have been told,some school busses. All Mopar,no aftermarket. Given the intended use,I am guessing it would be designed more to produce torque at low RPM's than HP at high RPM's.

The exhaust manifolds were designed for clearance in a big truck,so I don't know if they will clear the crossmember in your 50 Suburban or not. Should be pretty easy for you to tell by holding them up to the engine and seeing where the exits point.

Edited by knuckleharley
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That low compression aluminum head is most likely from a late 30's chrysler because of it being aluminum and the old 695...? part #.

None of the trucks used aluminum heads.

The intake/exhaust is a real score from a 1953 up K series 2-1/2 tonner 265 truck engine.

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The aluminum head # 695795 was also listed for the 1939,1940 and 1941 Desoto (option)

Edited by Ralph D25cpe
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7 minutes ago, greg g said:

Wow!  Bell Cranks r Us!!!

Think Rube Goldberg was a Mopar engineer back then?

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the 39 Desoto had an option to use the factory aluminum head. The HP when from 93 with the cast head to 100 with the aluminum head. Also there were different plugs to be used witht he aluminum head and also the standard copper head gasket was not used.  So do some more research before putting this on your engine.

I had an aluminum head for my 39 Desoto but sold it several years ago.

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

 

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Those old aluminum heads can get pretty corroded too.

I have see them at swap meets and passed on them as I too have heard they "could "be problematic.

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11 hours ago, DonaldSmith said:

I presume that your 50 Suburban is the Plymouth wagon.  That would have the 23-inch engine, so you'll have fun putting a 25-inch engine in it.  It has been done.  If you have a DeSoto Suburban, it has the 25-inch engine

Yes it is a Plymouth. I have a 265 from a 53 Windsor I bought to gain the 25 to replace the 23. Just now got the motor out from the Windsor. Pulled the head off and it has perfect barrels.  

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These parts are what made me decide to restore the car with a 6 flathead. I have a 3 speed overdrive that I plan to use. Should be a fun car to drive. 

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2 hours ago, desoto1939 said:

the 39 Desoto had an option to use the factory aluminum head. The HP when from 93 with the cast head to 100 with the aluminum head. Also there were different plugs to be used witht he aluminum head and also the standard copper head gasket was not used.  So do some more research before putting this on your engine.

I had an aluminum head for my 39 Desoto but sold it several years ago.

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

 

So what type of gasket should be used on an aluminum head?

 

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On January-16-17 at 10:14 PM, Newbee said:

I was lucky enough to me across this aluminium head with the casting markings of Desoto Chrysler so it appears to be a part that was produced for a 25. I was also able to obtain from the same seller the matching marked dual carb, split manifold with the original air cleaners. I have obtained a 53 Windsor that has the 25 so I can install it into a 50 Suburban that needs me to lift the radiator cap and drive another body under it. 

IMG_1316.JPG

The head is a factory head from the early 30s, prior to the 25 1/2" engines being produced in Windsor Ontario Canada. Its a low compression head and not to be confused with the Edmunds aftermarket heads produced after the second world war. This is for a period restoration or a wall hanger, its not a performance head in any way shape or form.
 

On January-16-17 at 11:30 PM, Newbee said:

Here is a shot of the intake. I will let you know about the extra parts.

IMG_1160.JPG

Your intake, was an option starting with the 1952 Dodge truck with a 265, and later a dealer add on.  I will attached a restored one, the illustration from the 1952 Dodge engineering book, and the dealership ad for 1952.       These were often seen on stock cars in 1952 as they were a factory part.  You will notice, like all trucks the linkage is on the exhaust side and got along the head and arouind the back of the head, vs a car which sees the linkage come across the head.     This is a rare performance part.  With the air cleaners on them they are a bit of a challenge to get under a car hood. There are ways of dealing with that

IMG-20141216-00927.jpg

pg+8-16+factory+duals+for+265.jpg

IMG-20151124-03068.jpg

IMG-20151124-03067.jpg

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Here are the factory air cleaners which as 7 1/4" wide at the top,  and then we recently restored a set for a customer, took out the equalizer tube and governors  but installed 1 phenolic washers, as unlike a carb intake the heat from these headers can not be shut off.   If you like I can send you pictures of it disassembled

DODGE53-6 compressed.jpg

IMG_20160424_142516 compressed.jpg

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What great information. You mention that the air cleaners may be an issue for the hood. Is taking the balance tube off the solution? I do not have the exhaust flange to meet the manifold. May have to machine a part to fit unless you know where I could buy some. I would appreciate the shot of them apart. Is there a good work around for the linkage to work on the car? Thanks for your knowledge. 

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It will depend on what vehicle your putting it on. If its a pickup you can likely make it work.  A post WW2 car, wont work. Because this was a truck exhaust it has a 4 bolt flange. George Asche or Tim Kingsbruy can supply the flanges for the exhaust pipe side if you cant find them. The picture Tim posted has linkage set up for a car by the look of it which tells me George makes the linkage. Drop him a note or give George a call

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Here is the setup on my 1940 Plymouth woodie wagon; It is a 23" block (217 ) motor, with a modified intake- a stock manifold modified by a Forum member (can't recall his name right at this moment :confused: ) and an additional dump on the exhaust. The 2" exhaust is split and then recombines into a single larger tailpipe. There was no room to run a second pipe with the way the gas tank was configured on the pre-war wagons.The 75 yr old owner of the muffler shop said that the larger single would breathe just fine, (they did it that way with V-8s, back in the 50's and 60s) and it does have much more power than my old stock single carb setup. With the oil-bath air cleaners, the problem is their too-large diameter. I found 2 Crosley units - cut the bottoms out of spare Plymouth air cleaners and welded them up to the Crosleys. Work great and are very similar to the old Dodge Pilothouse duals, I think.

Crosley air cleaners.pdf

Dual linkage.pdf

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  • 1 month later...
On 1/21/2017 at 1:54 PM, Bob Riding said:

With the oil-bath air cleaners, the problem is their too-large diameter. I found 2 Crosley units - cut the bottoms out of spare Plymouth air cleaners and welded them up to the Crosleys. Work great and are very similar to the old Dodge Pilothouse duals, I think.

Crosley air cleaners.pdf

Dual linkage.pdf

BTW,I'm loving the Crosley air cleaners,while frustrated because they are probably super hard to find.

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On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 7:40 PM, timkingsbury said:

Here are the factory air cleaners which as 7 1/4" wide at the top,  and then we recently restored a set for a customer, took out the equalizer tube and governors  but installed 1 phenolic washers, as unlike a carb intake the heat from these headers can not be shut off.   If you like I can send you pictures of it disassembled

DODGE53-6 compressed.jpg

IMG_20160424_142516 compressed.jpg

So the 1" phenolic washers were only for heat? Also why the balance tube on the stock set?  I have fenton dual carb intake and have seen it mentioned to run the same 1 inch spacers but I had thought it was for low speed torque. Now i need to find that discussion again.. 

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Part number 695795 is for a 1938-40 DeSoto high compression aluminum head.  Chrysler also had an optional aluminum head but it was 695798.  

Regular compression on the 1938-40 engines was 6.5:1 (93 bhp)  with the aluminum head giving 7.0:1 (100 bhp).  Nothing earth shattering, but combined with a dual carb set up should give a noticeable oomph.

Bill

 

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On ‎19‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 1:19 PM, Alshere59 said:

So the 1" phenolic washers were only for heat? Also why the balance tube on the stock set?  I have fenton dual carb intake and have seen it mentioned to run the same 1 inch spacers but I had thought it was for low speed torque. Now i need to find that discussion again.. 

That is correct its principle reason is heat. Without them the fuel tends to percolate in the carbs.   It also does help raise the carbs. If we had been able to find 2`inch phenolic washers or spacers we would have used them.   The customer does not have the setup you see installed yet so we can not conclude that a further raising of the carbs might be required.   The balance tube was used for multiple reasons.  I provided a rise of the carbs above the actual intake which provided a) added torque  b.) separated the exhaust heat which is always connected to the intake   In your Fenton intake which  is the same design as an Offy and D&S the issue is the carbs are way to low. and the square nature of its design being completely different than the mopar stock which nets that that intake tends to loose a great deal of torque while increasing RPM.    I would suggest a block or spacer of at least 2`inches would be advisable if you were going to use that intake.    I can also tell you that the internal round design of the factory intake is far superior to the fenton, offy and d&s design.  Hope that helps answer your question.

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