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Rolled A pillar?

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Hello all, i could use some help on getting passenger door to fit on my 53 fargo 1/2 ton. i have got many, many hours into this fit and now at wits end. the stubborness in me tells me i can do this myself but it is now time to get another opinion. i am sure i am not the first that has come across this but the door binds about 1/4 to 1/2 inch before shutting. take out latch and just close door and still doesnt close all the way binds at the hinge location. i have already done the hinge adjustments. i have looked quite extensively on this site for any work on the pillars and all i could find is that there was a measurement posted of 56" from pillar to pillar across cab and 30 7/8" from A pillar to B pillar at the bottom. i have 56 3/8 pillar to pillar. Pass. side 30 5/8., dr. side 31" a to b pillar. drivers door doesnt fit 100% either meaning i have to give it a bit of a slam to close.i guess i am asking a couple of things here, if someone could confirm measurements from A pillar to A pillar across the cab at the bottom and measurement from A pillar to B pillar at the bottom of the door opening. Also what did you do to fix this possible roll. i am guessing i am cutting the welds and forming it back to get proper measurement. my problem is that this was painted not too long ago and i wont get into the conversation i had with body shop about fitting prior to paint. any suggestions would be appreciated

thanks

Don

 

IMG_20161113_111741.jpgIMG_20161113_111850.jpgIMG_20161113_111915.jpg

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  Are these the original doors to the body?  Was there any repairs made to the floor/rocker of the body before prep and paint...and were these door if taken off for paint ever fitted prior to the body regardless of any repair actions that could or could not have been performed.

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I should have added that any work done with the doors off and any paint done to checking fit...then you pretty much out a lot of time and expense and will have to revisit the scene of the crime...I never recommend any floor repair or rocker fitting/replacement with the doors off vehicle just for this reason...many do not realize till too late the actions of metal subjected to heat/weld in body repair and how just a bit of change will throw things out of align

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Are these the original doors to the body?  Was there any repairs made to the floor/rocker of the body before prep and paint...and were these door if taken off for paint ever fitted prior to the body regardless of any repair actions that could or could not have been performed.

these are the original doors and i had them dipped down to bare metal. when i got them back there was no body work needed. i took them off myself and they did close. there was no seal, weatherstripping on the doors that i can remember, making the doors close easier i guess. there was no work done to the pillars either just prep and paint. the 1 picture i sent looks like the a pillar is away from the floor which i didnt pick up on when i was taking apart. thats why i was asking for measurements. they werent fitted prior to paint. i had that conversation with my bodyguy that we should fit first before paint. that did not get done.

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guess I am confused by the pictures...looks like a weld bead  that does not look factory...reasons for my questions.  IF they worked prior to just removing the bolts and taking the doors off...I cannot see how you could have rolled a pillar or stressed the body.  Did the cab come off the frame would be the next question and if so how was it removed and how was it protected against shifting with doors removed etc....something has gone wrong...until the manner in which it was damaged/shifted is discovered or related....suggesting on undoing the error would be a guess and may cause further damage that would lead to not ever being able to align the setup

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http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/025/cover.htm

You may need to read all of this to see if applies to your  truck. Good read!

While everything on here was written for cars it is they same ideas for trucks too. Also for all brands of the era except for the very few unitized bodies made.

DJ

Edited by DJ194950

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guess I am confused by the pictures...looks like a weld bead  that does not look factory...reasons for my questions.  IF they worked prior to just removing the bolts and taking the doors off...I cannot see how you could have rolled a pillar or stressed the body.  Did the cab come off the frame would be the next question and if so how was it removed and how was it protected against shifting with doors removed etc....something has gone wrong...until the manner in which it was damaged/shifted is discovered or related....suggesting on undoing the error would be a guess and may cause further damage that would lead to not ever being able to align the setup

yes that is why i took the picture of the welds. i was hoping someone could say that does not look original from what other owners have. i did take off the cab with my car hoist. raised it off frame and lowered it on car trailer and took to body shop. i made up jig to set cab on and could be rolled around at body shop. these welds were already there.this is a full restoration, removing everything .the cab was stripped down to bare metal and there was no rot on this cab. im thinking the door had been flung open at some time and pillar was pulled from floor and rewelded. just not done very good.

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http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/025/cover.htm

You may need to read all of this to see if applies to your  truck. Good read!

While everything on here was written for cars it is they same ideas for trucks too. Also for all brands of the era except for the very few unitized bodies made.

DJ

okay thanks. i will give this a read

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You may want to try it without the weatherstripping in place or try sliding the front edge of the door out first.  You should be able to take the bolts out of the hinges completely without the door falling off.  If it 's binding on the front edge, the door should move out as the rear edge gets into position.

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20 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

You may want to try it without the weatherstripping in place or try sliding the front edge of the door out first.  You should be able to take the bolts out of the hinges completely without the door falling off.  If it 's binding on the front edge, the door should move out as the rear edge gets into position.

I have tried adjusting the door many times with hinges adjusted in and out. that is why i was leaning toward the a pillar tweaked out. i am hoping someone here can just do a quick measurement to confirm my thoughts that this a pillar was repaired wrong and is out of alignment

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8 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

I have a 1952 B1B that could look at, but think it may be different then a 1953 fargo.

If you could that would be great.i thought the fargo and dodge 48-53 cabs were the same. 

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if someone could confirm measurements from A pillar to A pillar across the cab at the bottom and measurement from A pillar to B pillar at the bottom of the door opening. 

 

So we will measure from the bottom of the pillar of drivers door across to passenger door pillar, And then from the latch side to the hinge side on the passenger, again the floor height for measurement?

It is dark here now, and truck is down the street at my uncles, so tomorrow will measure and take photos. If you can think of any other measurements that would be helpful, let me know.

The 1952 cab is really solid and in good condition, should have good measurements. The doors open and close fine on it.

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I based my suggestion on your statement where the door fit  before you took it apart and didn't have weatherstripping in.  Now you do and now it doesn't fit.  Weather stripping takes up space.  The A pillar may have been repaired using a door without the weatherstripping.    Now you may need to modify the hinge bolt location by slotting the A pillar where the bolts go through.  It should be less invasive than cutting the floor mounting and rewelding.  If the wearstripping is not the problem, you may want to check the hinges themselves to see if they're bottoming out on how far they can fold back.  There should be an indication in the paint if it is.  Doors without check straps will often tweak the sides of the doors and/or the hinge.  Neither is nice to fix with paint already on.

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   I‘ve read the entries herein, and based upon my experience (I worked at a auto body shop that specialized in custom body work, and custom painting during my under-grad years), here’s my two-cents worth: if you remove a body from the frame, and you’ve removed the doors, it has to be cross-braced while still on the frame prior to removal from the frame. If the doors are still on it, then leave them latched, and don’t open them for ANY reason (a few tack-welds on the door-to-body are also recommended).

   In almost all cases, with doors that closed OK without the weather-stripping, and not so well with the weather-stripping, it was usually the weather-stripping that’s caused the doors to not close as easily, or as completely. We didn’t adjust the doors in this case, but rather just closed them, and let the new weather-stripping compress, and take “a set” to the body/respective door. Usually after a few days of remaining closed, the doors would close much easier, and would be close to the degree of evenness with the body as they were before we dealt with them, if not exactly the same as before.

   However, if the steps I described in the first paragraph weren’t followed . . . well, I’ve seen instances of where we never did get the doors to fit properly after such, since the body shell had moved enough that we couldn’t easily get the doors to fit decently, with the end result being a LOT of body work with jacks, pulling cables, etc., and a LOT of time (spell that m-o-n-e-y . . .) to get everything back into proper sync with the rest of the world.

   Thx . . .

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   I‘ve read the entries herein, and based upon my experience (I worked at a auto body shop that specialized in custom body work, and custom painting during my under-grad years), here’s my two-cents worth: if you remove a body from the frame, and you’ve removed the doors, it has to be cross-braced while still on the frame prior to removal from the frame. If the doors are still on it, then leave them latched, and don’t open them for ANY reason (a few tack-welds on the door-to-body are also recommended).

   In almost all cases, with doors that closed OK without the weather-stripping, and not so well with the weather-stripping, it was usually the weather-stripping that’s caused the doors to not close as easily, or as completely. We didn’t adjust the doors in this case, but rather just closed them, and let the new weather-stripping compress, and take “a set” to the body/respective door. Usually after a few days of remaining closed, the doors would close much easier, and would be close to the degree of evenness with the body as they were before we dealt with them, if not exactly the same as before.

   However, if the steps I described in the first paragraph weren’t followed . . . well, I’ve seen instances of where we never did get the doors to fit properly after such, since the body shell had moved enough that we couldn’t easily get the doors to fit decently, with the end result being a LOT of body work with jacks, pulling cables, etc., and a LOT of time (spell that m-o-n-e-y . . .) to get everything back into proper sync with the rest of the world.

   Thx . . .

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What I came up with A pillar to A pillar 56 1/4"

From latch side to A pillar  30 15/16"

The edges are rounded a bit, I measured from the proudest point, to the proudest point.

Hope this helps.

 

IMG_20161115_135743440_HDR.jpg

IMG_20161115_135757884_HDR.jpg

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Los_Control

thanks for the measurements. that is where i measured. i am roughly a 1/4" tighter opening from what you have but pretty well the same as you pillar to pillar

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22 hours ago, TheDoctor'sIn said:

   I‘ve read the entries herein, and based upon my experience (I worked at a auto body shop that specialized in custom body work, and custom painting during my under-grad years), here’s my two-cents worth: if you remove a body from the frame, and you’ve removed the doors, it has to be cross-braced while still on the frame prior to removal from the frame. If the doors are still on it, then leave them latched, and don’t open them for ANY reason (a few tack-welds on the door-to-body are also recommended).

   In almost all cases, with doors that closed OK without the weather-stripping, and not so well with the weather-stripping, it was usually the weather-stripping that’s caused the doors to not close as easily, or as completely. We didn’t adjust the doors in this case, but rather just closed them, and let the new weather-stripping compress, and take “a set” to the body/respective door. Usually after a few days of remaining closed, the doors would close much easier, and would be close to the degree of evenness with the body as they were before we dealt with them, if not exactly the same as before.

   However, if the steps I described in the first paragraph weren’t followed . . . well, I’ve seen instances of where we never did get the doors to fit properly after such, since the body shell had moved enough that we couldn’t easily get the doors to fit decently, with the end result being a LOT of body work with jacks, pulling cables, etc., and a LOT of time (spell that m-o-n-e-y . . .) to get everything back into proper sync with the rest of the world.

   Thx . . .

I totally agree with what you are saying. especially convertibles if they are not braced somehow before removing from frame things can go south. saying that im thinking others have removed the cabs without bracing and put back together and havent heard the issues. or maybe they are just not saying

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23 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

I based my suggestion on your statement where the door fit  before you took it apart and didn't have weatherstripping in.  Now you do and now it doesn't fit.  Weather stripping takes up space.  The A pillar may have been repaired using a door without the weatherstripping.    Now you may need to modify the hinge bolt location by slotting the A pillar where the bolts go through.  It should be less invasive than cutting the floor mounting and rewelding.  If the wearstripping is not the problem, you may want to check the hinges themselves to see if they're bottoming out on how far they can fold back.  There should be an indication in the paint if it is.  Doors without check straps will often tweak the sides of the doors and/or the hinge.  Neither is nice to fix with paint already on.

You make a good point of removing the bolts. i am binding on the lower hinge. I was leaning toward a pillar because the measurements were not the same at each door. i did move the hinges to their outmost travel and was getting the same result. did not think of removing the bolts. cant get back to truck till the weekend but will try it with bolts out. i do appreciate the feedback i have received from everyone. 

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just wanted to mention what i did to fix the problem i had with the door fit that was having me stumped. some were maybe wondering what the heck did i do to fix the door fit because i never did get back. took all the info that was suggested and a big thanks to los_control for the measurements. it has been almost a year since i walked away from it because of work, kids and what not. i just completed the repair last week and it damn near made me sick grinding my new paint job. i ground off the weld at the pillar and floor and tightened down with c clamp to bring pillar against floor, measured and welded. when i clamped it brought the pillar back to where it was originally with a little persuasion to give me the correct gap. pic shows pillar is now against floor with a flush fit. door is installed and fits the way it should. DSCF2155.JPG.a10e8113f1ebc7151fd1a21df57cdad8.JPG

DSCF2157.JPG

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