Kool48 Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 I'm in the process of changing my freeze plugs on my 1948 Plymouth Special Deluxe. I believe this is the 217 engine ? My question is. I got the 2 bottom plugs out no biggie. But I started to drill a hole in the top plug to left , it just didn't seem right so I didn't drill through. Look like iron chips not steel. Was there any of theses blocks where the castings had the bosses for plugs but the only used the bottom 2 on th drivers side ? I don't wanna drill a hole in the block itself. So I'm gonna install my new Dorman copper freeze plugs in the bottom 2. I don't wanna start reassembling until I get some answers regarding the top 3. It's very hard to tell that there is a plug. It looks really smooth like one casting (block). .... Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel_ny Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 No answer for the tops, but I would not install any until all are out, and a complete flush top to bottom is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 They look like freeze plugs to me. Instead of trying to pull them out past decades of paint and rust,why not take a punch to the lip on one side and try to knock it back in on that side? MUCH easier to apply force and you get the same results because when you knock one side in the other side comes out and you can grab it with vise grips and pull it out then. Just make sure the punch you are using is an actual punch with a flat face. Try to find one that has a curvature close to the curvature of the freeze plug for maximum impact. Anyhow,that's what has worked best for me in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los_Control Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 I was just looking at a motor of mine the other day, I was told that it had been rebuilt, but sadly was stored for many years with the head off. But the freeze plugs did not have any paint on them, was obvious they were freeze plugs and the same as the photo you showed. Probably just old and rusty, and is what you are seeing as you drill them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Those are in the same position as the core/welch/freeze plugs on my older engine. My way to take them out is to use a screw drill to put a self-drilling, self-tapping screw in the middle leaving the head proud of the surface. Then the claw on a carpenter's hammer can be used to pull them out. Only did the job once and only on one engine but it was quick and easy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kool48 Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Thanks to all the replies on this matter. I don't have a problem getting them out. I simply drill a small hole run a screw into it and pull out with a wonder bar. Works very easily , my question was did they ever not machine the top 3 for any odd reason. It's dark and cold now. But tomorrow I'll give another look. I'd like to believe they are plugs in there. I can't see a reason why they wouldn't have machined all 5 on the side. But anyways. I just didn't wanna drill into the iron block , if they hadn't been machined and plugs there . I let ya know what I find tomorrow. Thanks again. As far as flushing. It needs it bad. I was told it had a fresh rebuild when I got about 3/4 months ago. Lol no way has it been. Behind plugs , it's full of black crud. It's pretty bad. Car ran good no overheating issues . But I know it needs a good flushing. It actually need to be hot tanked. Flushing isn't going to remove this stuff. It's caked in there. I cleaned the best I could and as far as I could which isn't far. But for now , I'll get the new plugs in it , probably cycle the antifreeze trough a few times. It's got a new radiator so I don't wanna plug it up. I learned on my 49 years ago. Put a woman's pantie hose in the neck of the top radiator and check it often. It'll catch most of anything that breaks lose in there. Thanks for the replies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel_ny Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 I found this behind one of my freeze plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kool48 Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 26 minutes ago, _shel_ny said: I found this behind one of my freeze plugs. Ya I was scooping what looked and felt like almost dry mud out from behind mine. I get her cleaned the best I can. Few flushes , hopefully it'll help. Can't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 3 hours ago, knuckleharley said: They look like freeze plugs to me. Instead of trying to pull them out past decades of paint and rust,why not take a punch to the lip on one side and try to knock it back in on that side? MUCH easier to apply force and you get the same results because when you knock one side in the other side comes out and you can grab it with vise grips and pull it out then. Just make sure the punch you are using is an actual punch with a flat face. Try to find one that has a curvature close to the curvature of the freeze plug for maximum impact. Anyhow,that's what has worked best for me in the past. knuckle, not sure if you have looked at the block casting holes close..they are not smooth bore like late models using cup style inserts...these are disc style..they actually fit inside the hole opening BUT lay against a lip that is the block...stepped opening if you will....punch with force here could get you in deep trouble quick....... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kool48 Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said: knuckle, not sure if you have looked at the block casting holes close..they are not smooth bore like late models using cup style inserts...these are disc style..they actually fit inside the hole opening BUT lay against a lip that is the block...stepped opening if you will....punch with force here could get you in deep trouble quick....... Agreed. There is a counter bore for the plug to seat against. You could easily bust that cast iron shoulder. Then hmmmmm mmmmmm. Good point Plymouth Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said: knuckle, not sure if you have looked at the block casting holes close..they are not smooth bore like late models using cup style inserts...these are disc style..they actually fit inside the hole opening BUT lay against a lip that is the block...stepped opening if you will....punch with force here could get you in deep trouble quick....... YIKES! Thanks for the heads up on this because that is for sure what I would have done if I had of had to replace any of mine, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kool48 Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Those Dorman freeze plugs I'm using , I planned on using permatex non hardening gasket sealer. Pretty good stuff. Any one have experience with those Dorman expandable plugs and what they used as a sealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT81Jan Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) Hey Kool48 I try to answer your question "did they ever not machine the top 3 for any odd reason" from the technical aspect. The question is: Why are freeze plugs needed ? When producing a cast part like a water cooled crankcase, a mould made of (special) sand is used in the foundry. The single sand pieces / cores have to be held in place until the melted iron is poured into the mould hollow. Therefor core supports are needed which creates openings into the casting. The openings have to be closed afterwards with freeze plugs. Please find attached a scetch which might help to understand what I have tried to explain above. So in my opinion it is pretty unlikely that there are crankcases which have unmachined freeze plug seats at any position. Best regards, Jan Edited October 22, 2016 by PT81Jan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Get the brass freeze or welch plugs the brass is more but the galvanized evenutall rust the brass is better and get the flat plugs the the lipped plugs the lipped plugs are not correct. The expandable plug canbe used but is not correct these are used in an emergency situation and then replaced witht he correct plugs. Rich Hartung 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) be aware that the expandable plug (emergency limp in device) as found at the big box store best serves it purpose on the flathead by slicing it carefully into two halves..there is precious little room between the core opening and the inner block making the original thickness just too great... Edited October 22, 2016 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 3 hours ago, desoto1939 said: Get the brass freeze or welch plugs the brass is more but the galvanized evenutall rust the brass is better and get the flat plugs the the lipped plugs the lipped plugs are not correct. The expandable plug canbe used but is not correct these are used in an emergency situation and then replaced witht he correct plugs. Rich Hartung Thank you. I did not know that? Where do you buy the original freeze plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Take your pick.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike36 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Dodgeb4ya, great picture should make it clear for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Rich is correct, ideally get the BRASS plugs........hose & clean out the water jacket as much as possible and unless you expect to either pull the engine apart again or have cooling issues then use the brass plugs......you'll never have to redo them again due to rustout...........andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kool48 Posted October 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) 20 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: Take your pick.... I used the lower left copper,. Dorman 568-010 plugs. Works great. Edited October 23, 2016 by Kool48 Copper not brass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kool48 Posted October 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well got my plugs done yesterday and all back together. Not to bad of a job to do. Highly suggest the Dorman copper expandable plugs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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