1946SpecialDeluxe Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 I have a 1946 Plymouth club coupe special deluxe, Ive had the car for 2 years it was given to my wife by here grandfather (owned the car since '84) from Wyoming. ( we live in Central Alabama) The car is really solid and the engine runs pretty good trans shifts through the gears, biggest problem is the brakes. I am currently attempting to remove the master cylinder (that's how I stumbled upon the site looking for tips) trying to get the car running and driving so we can drive it around a little besides up and down the our driveway. So the short term goals are to go through the brakes and put some new wheels and tires on (smoothies and radials) and we are hopefully ready for some car shows and date nights. Long term Still trying to work out the end goal of the project whether to keep it stock (since its survived so long) or go restomod with mustang 2 front suspension and a 331 hemi (that I picked up this past summer for the car) and a 700R so my wife can cruise it around with A/C without any worries. Any advice on which way would be best? I know which way would be the cheapest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1946SpecialDeluxe Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Here's the hemi in question, still in a 1954 Chrysler imperial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 do yourself a favor and address the brakes for the long term position if you can. The cost involved can be quite a chunk on initial layout but dollar for dollar stock verse upgrade to disc about the same. HOWEVER the next clinker was your later slide to MII suspension...that would make brake work done now an expensive not recoverable at the end. So to evaluate you current condition and where you want to be...is the MII truly better way to go to enjoy the car now and again later without a huge out of pocket. These frames can be set up with R&P, disc brakes and relocated shock...drawback, no PS and still kingpins verse ball joints. Directing another person is tough to do here as the options are various and each person have their own particular slant on looks/versatility. I guess what I am saying most is that you could be facing double the work and double the cost for a then and now approach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper50 Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Nice looking coupe. Before spending as PA says solidify your plans so there's no duplication and/or redo of expensive parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1946SpecialDeluxe Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 I understand what your saying, I guess that's why I am trying to get the original brakes ($13 master cylinder rebuild kit) going to see if the drivetrain/suspension is livable before I buy disc for the stock suspension or decide M2 is the only way to go. So the question, I suppose is the original suspension up to the task of highway speeds or is it going to be floaty and generally scary keep in mind its the wife's car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 once you do the shock relocation and go through with new bushing and kingpins..the front should be extremely capable...the float should all but be gone..the shocks are a weak link in handling...again R&P will address a lot of issue witht he steering and the lunky linkage. Cost wise and better yet..this can be done is small steps over a weekend and should not take the car off the road if one in stages.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 First of all,I am prejudiced. Been a hot rodder all my life,but IMHO any old car that clean,straight,and complete deserves to be left pretty much unmolested by not changing anything you can't easily change back to original. As for Mustang 2 front ends,if you want a car that drives like a Mustang 2,buy a Mustang 2. There is nothing wrong or unsafe about the way a P-15 drives if the front suspension is tight,and the "feel" of the way a old car drives is IMHO one of the prime reasons to drive old cars. As for the 331 in the 54 Imperial,I suspect it is a 354 instead of a 331,which is WAY better because the block won't be a huge part of the bellhousing. And,once again,complete 54 Imperials aren't found parked in many back yards anymore,and I'm guessing there is a restorer out there that would be lusting after the one you have on the trailer. If you bought the whole car cheap enough to justify buying it for the engine,you can turn a REALLY nice profit on selling the whole car to a restorer. As for the P-15,it is modern enough to be a comfortable and safe daily driver without going crazy with modifications if that is what you want. My suggestion is to start on the brakes like you plan,but unless you have honed and rebuilt master cylinders before and know what you are doing,MY suggestion is to buy a new or rebuilt one. These are single outlet master cylinders,so MY suggestion is to buy a new dual outlet master cylinder with whatever brackets are needed that can be mounted in the original location without having to modify anything else. That's win/win regardless of if you keep the car original (almost original) or hot rod it because it is a safety issue. Either way you need a dual outlet master cylinder so that is money that won't have to be spent again. Check your rubber brake lines for signs of cracks. If there is any question at all,replace all 3 of them. You are going to have to do this regardless of what type of brake job you do,so no money duplication there. Buy the new copper/nickel brake lines that are being sold by every auto parts supplier in the country,and replace all the hard lines with it. This new stuff won't rust like the original stuff that is over 60 years old.and enough to do your whole brake line should cost less than $30. If it were me,I would replace all the wheel cylinders with new ones. If you look around,you can actually buy brand new Lockheed or Borg-Warner wheel cylinders for around 5 bucks each. Most kits cost more than that. I only paid around $4.50 each for brand new Lockheed wheel cylinders for my 51 Ford about 3 months ago. If you put disc brakes up front later,you are only out 10 bucks or so on the wheel cylinders. If you swap the rear later,you will be out 20 bucks or so in wheel cylinders. Big deal. In the meantime you have a safe car to drive and enjoy while you are deciding what to do and saving up your money. My best suggestion is to get it safe to drive and enjoy it for a while as a stocker,and then make up your mind what you want to do. You can always modify it in the future with no extra money or work spent,but if you modify it right off the bat and later decide you want a more original car,that's a lot of money and time wasted. BTW,if you do want to go more modern,what's wrong with the stock front suspension and disc brake upgrade already mentioned,along with a 318 and 904? The money you could get from selling that Imperial to a restorer would go a long ways towards financing a lot of the stuff that has already been discussed. Or alternatively,maybe selling the P-15 coupe to a restorer or one of us,and then buying one stripped out to modernize? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1946SpecialDeluxe Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Well the 46 is definitely not for sale, that would probably get me divorced, the originality and the solidity of the car makes me question the hemi swap, but if I was to swap nothing says hot rod like a hemi. which brings me to the next question of a p15 since I have no experience with a car this old is the engine at 95 hp capable of being driven or for parade duty only. I have tried to sell the imperial on a hemi based website as a restorable car with no takers ( kind of felt bad after guy I bought it from gave me the original bill of sale with the matching engine number on it), it is a 331 ive checked the casting numbers and it does not have the extended bell housing. I also have the original bill of sale for that car for 1953 ( cost $5K!!). So if someone was interested I wouldn't be completely apposed. ( 331 engine does run a little with gas in carb guy had driven it around yard the day before I bought it) original bill of sale picture of 54 I would say late 80's early 90's judging by the style of printed picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choptop40 Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Rebuild what's there , enjoy it for a season or two , the see.....if your going to local shows etc , you'll have a blast and keep momma happy to boot , happy holidays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam H P15 D30 Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 If you have the skill,time and $$$, put the HEMI in it. Since your planning on a trans adaptor anyway why not get the torqueflite adaptor and put an early to mid 90's 518 behind it? It's basically a 727 with an OD behind it. No computers just a toggle switch to engage the OD. Matches up with the block better and isn't a TH??? Make sure to find a small block one though. Later 518's have a lock up converter. Works fine with a simple vacuum switch. 54 is a short bell 331 and it has a wet 4bbl manifold, don't loose it. May have the large port heads also, maybe not. Kind of a transition year. If it has large port heads, don't loose the exhaust manifolds. Can be bored to a 354 or more after a sonic check. Go to the HEMI tech on the HAMB and read,read,read. Adam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Since you apparently don't have much history with the old Mopes your brain may be remembering old Ford or gm front suspension designs which are inferior to the Mopar. A properly rebuilt system with disc brakes and new shock mounts will surprise most folks. Although the MII is popular in many circles it is not inexpensive or a weekend project. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1946SpecialDeluxe Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Yeah I typically lean towards 60's and 70's GM so I do not know much about the MOPARS especially the old ones. But this car kind of fell into my lap so I guess I'm gonna learn the hard way. So I guess current plan is to revive what I got, let the wife drive it and see if she can live with it, she actually leans towards original other than wanting to paint it mid 50's Gm teal/green and putting a new "peanut butter" color interior in it. Guess I need to read up on the shock relocation kit, and possible the R&P swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 >>which brings me to the next question of a p15 since I have no experience with a car this old is the engine at 95 hp capable of being driven or for parade duty only.<< My semi-daily driver 51 Ford business coupe has a 95 hp 226 cubic inch flat head 6 in it,and I have no trouble cruising around at 55-60 mph in it,and I haven't even wired the overdrive up yet to see if it works. Keep in mind that is cruising speed on mostly 4 lane roads. If you get on a 2 lane road with a lot of curves behind somebody running 45-50 mph,you ain't likely to pass them. On most US or Interstate highways you will have no real trouble maintaining the speed limit unless you go driving in the mountains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 >>So I guess current plan is to revive what I got, let the wife drive it and see if she can live with it,<< Keep in mind that grandmothers used to drive these things every day,and that was back in the day of parallel parking. That big,beautiful steering wheel gives you a lot of leverage. Just avoid putting really wide radials on it. The orginal owner of my 42 Dodge coupe was a woman that bought it new in Boston a few days before Pearl Harbor was attacked. She liked it so much she drove it until she died around 1992. It was a really nice garage-kept car all it's life until the idiot I bought it from bought it at her estate sale for a parts car for his restored 42 coupe,and then parked it out in his back yard with a window rolled down so his outside cats could get in it to sleep. Now it is one of the worlds rustiest 42 Dodges. >>Guess I need to read up on the shock relocation kit, and possible the R&P swap. << Sounds like a good plan,but do the shock relocation thing,check and repair as needed the original front suspension,and drive it around for a few months. You might decide you don't need to spend all that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1946SpecialDeluxe Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 10-4 sounds like a reasonable plan, thanks to all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy48 Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Relocating the front shock mounts, and replacing the skinny original sway bar will make a world of difference in how that car handles. Both relatively easy and inexpensive modifications. A Jeep Cherokee sway bar can be used to replace the original sway bar...there is information on that in this forum. Regardless of whether you leave the brakes stock, or convert to discs, you would be amazed at how much better the car will handle. Wayne . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 46Spec.........I'm a hotrodder, so I'll lean that way, my 1940 Oz Dodge has had a 318 Poly, auto, 4 wheel discs, rack & pinion etc since 1973, drives & stops well....but there is a little bit of fiddling around to do the engine swap.....what these guys say is really the best option, upgrade the brakes, wheels & tyres and see how you like it......as for the Imperial, it would be a shame to part it out as its survived this long..........I had a 1940 Plymouth Coupe 2007 till 2013.........sold it however it was gunna get a rebuilt, hopped up 230( see pic) & 5 speed, discs etc and go hunt some frods...........your car, your choice, however I'd try the relatively easy way with minimal changes first............btw welcome & Merry Xmas from downunder.............Andy Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 That is a very nice original '46 you have. Don't know if I'd put the HEMI in it, but, what "I" would do is pull the HEMI for a future project and part out the rest to recoup some $$$....too many doors for me to bother with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1946SpecialDeluxe Posted December 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Just finished reading thread about 49 getting a hemi looks like more cutting of the firewall than I would be willing to do, I figured on the inner fenders but was gonna pull originals and build replacements. Maybe the hemi will have to be a rat rod project eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAubuchon Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 That's really nice car. For the money and appeal here is my 2cents. Fix the original brakes and drive it. Put new radial tires on the existing rims and drive it. Then if you decide switch over to disc brakes, drive it some more, them either put in an overdrive or swap out the rear end to 355 gears and drive. I have driven my 47 and 49 coast to coast, up pikes peak, down the Oregon coast, Vermont, Canada, Michigan. and a lot of other places. They are only original once! The project I described can be completed over a weekend and then you can drive it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Baily Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Hello, Just to let you know I've had my 48 Plymouth for 32 years, I'm in Simi Valley CA. and have driven to San Francisco, San Diego and countless Car shows. I have only done one major change besides routine maintance and that was put a 53 Plymouth overdrive trans in. I'm currently running on the 3rd set of Goodyear 6:50x15 bias WW tires. However the car looks great! Best of luck with it. Ernie Baily 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Hello, Just to let you know I've had my 48 Plymouth for 32 years, Ernie Baily I can see why you kept it all this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1946SpecialDeluxe Posted January 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 well the master cylinder has been rebuilt, now I need new tires and a battery, How wide is too wide for steering effort for these cars? I was thinking in the 205-225 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 1946SpecialDeluxe, on 04 Jan 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:well the master cylinder has been rebuilt, now I need new tires and a battery, How wide is too wide for steering effort for these cars? I was thinking in the 205-225 range. is ride your only concern...many try to keep the speedometer as accurate as possible and throw this into the mix as prime consideration on size/profile of tire..you are in the correct thread width spectrum..but based on being a bias over radial and what ratio aspect you need for speedometer and or looks you wish to attain being your two final parameters..radial tire patch is less due to the tread being on both inner and outer sidewall...where these values start and end is the tread width measurement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I just put on four Firestones 215-75R15s because they are the equivalent of 6.70-15s. The car is a bit of a bear to steer at very low speed, up t about 5, no clearance problems so far, and the Speedo reads 2 MPH across the range. Well, up to 65. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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