mopar_earl Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hello, We installed the heat riser repair kit as per the manual and it works backwards. It's always in the cold mode no matter how long I drive it. It does rotate clockwise when you rev the engine from idle when cold like it says it should. But when hot it doesn't and the spring load is higher when hot when it should have less tension. Is it possible the spring is made wrong? The spring is installed as per the book. When hot the spring is much tighter than cold which tells me it's working opposite. If I flip the spring it should work correctly but than the tang would be on the wrong side of the stop. Anyone have this issue with their kits? Bought the kit back in August. Thanks, Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busycoupe Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I just installed a heat riser spring from AB 2 days ago. When I test ran the engine the heat riser weight did not change position. I have not had a chance to figure out what it is doing. Perhaps tomorrow I will be able to work on. I will post what I find out. Dave B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48ply1stcar Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Did you compare the instructions to the heat riser instruction in the (resources) section? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Did you compare the instructions to the heat riser instruction in the (resources) section? No and I searched the tech section and only got 3 or 4 hits and none talked about it in detail. It's installed as per the service manual. The spring only goes on one way, so I'm believing the spring isn't manufactured correctly. The weight damper wasn't made correctly for the bumper to go on. They had the bolt tabs in backwards and had to use a nut to hold the bumper on the end of the bolt. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I just installed a heat riser spring from AB 2 days ago. When I test ran the engine the heat riser weight did not change position. I have not had a chance to figure out what it is doing. Perhaps tomorrow I will be able to work on. I will post what I find out. Dave B. Sounds like the same issue. I went on a 30 mile drive running it hard and the heat riser stayed in the cold position the whole time with the spring having more tension than when cold. I believe they may have wound the spring wrong when they made them. The spring definitely expends and contracts, just the wrong way. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P15-D24 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 http://p15-d24.com/page/p15d24/tech/heat_riser_adviser.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 http://p15-d24.com/page/p15d24/tech/heat_riser_adviser.html Yes this is how the service manual said to do it as well. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busycoupe Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I just checked my heat riser. With the spring installed per the manual it held the valve shaft very tightly in the counterclockwise position. The weight and shaft would not move when the throttle was opened. I remounted the spring so that it was tensioned less than a half turn. I know that the manual warns not to tension it only 155 degrees, but it seems to make my heat riser work this way. Now the valve opens when the thermostatic spring is at a temperature of 190 degrees and the exhaust manifold near it is about 300 degrees. The weight also swings when the throttle is opened and the spring is still cold. I will check this again cold, then hot to make sure that the spring doesn't fatigue after a few cycles, but for now this seems to work. The only other issue I have with the heat riser is that the weight on mine is missing the cloth bumper and the weight rests left of straight up. What can be used to replace the bumper? Dave B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 My kit came with a new bumper. That's my next step is to monkey with putting the spring on differently to see if it will work. Going by the book it just won't work. You can't flip the spring or the tang would be on the wrong side of the stop. The weight was made incorrectly so wouldn't surprise me if the spring was incorrect. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowbrook Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Guys, I did have the Bernbaum kit and the issue is that the spring is just that, a plain spring and not the proper bimetallic spring. Try this, remove the spring, place it on a vise or some non flammable surface and apply heat to it, like with a soldering torch or lighter. The proper spring should start unwinding (or winding tighter, I can't remember), if it just sits there, it is what I had which is a plain steel spiral spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 That sounds like it came from China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Oh I'm sure the kit was china made. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busycoupe Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 My spring from Bernbaum did react to heat. It unwound as it got hot like it should. Earl, you can't flip the spring over like you say, but you can rotate it a half turn so it won't be so tight. I think that the spring from Bernbaum works, it just doesn't have the same thermal characteristics as the Mopar spring from 65 yrs. ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Yes, the spring does change tension from cold to hot, just puts the tension the wrong way. I will change the clock position of the spring and see what that does. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I changed the clock position of the spring. That make it have a lot less tension in the cold position but stayed there. Once hot, the same thing, the spring for more tension to hold the damper in the cold position. The spring gains tension as it gets hot, I need it to loose tension so it will drop the weight over and go into the hot position. Anyone know where I can get a heat riser spring that is correct? Nothing I got from Andy Bernbaum's has been correct or have any quality to it. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I called Bernbaum and he said he never had any issues with the springs. He's sending me another spring. I'm pretty sure it will be the same results. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Maybe try flipping the spring over would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopardude Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I'm confused about these springs. I was curious reading this thread so I tried it on my own, looking for enlightenment. When I held a light under mine with pliers holding the inside of the coil, the outer part of the coil rotated. The inside looked like it tensed up a bit, but the outer portion looked like it was "expanding" and rotating correctly. Is this the way that they're suppose to work? The one I tested is NOS as far as I know. Would love to know as my heat riser had no spring in it when I bought the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Maybe try flipping the spring over would help. Tried that, it won't work that way. Nothing for it to lock onto. It pops off the stop and the damper pad catches on it. Just won't function flipped. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Bernbaum sent me another spring. So far I noticed the bimetallic spring identifying marks are on the outside where the other spring is on the inside. Im hoping that explains why spring worked backwards. I'm thinking they had the raw material wrong when they cut and formed the spring. I Will post when I get around to trying the spring they sent. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Roberts Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 For an easy way to test the spring , can you just heat the spring in your hand with a hair dryer ? I don't know if that would work or not . If you have a heat gun that would be hotter . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I will try that with both springs to see how they react. I have a heat gun at work I can use to test them. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted November 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I tested both springs at work with a heat gun. One spring expanded and the other contracted. So I was right, the spring in my kit was incorrect. I noticed the correct spring had coding on the outside of the spring while the wrong one had the coding numbers on the inside. I believe they curled the spring in the wrong direction. I put the replacement spring on they sent me and it works correctly now. Earl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Roberts Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Better notify the vendor of your findings . If one was coiled the wrong way there are probably others . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkingcoupe Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) . One spring expanded and the other contracted. In the northern hemisphere water circles the drain in a clockwise direction and a counterclockwise direction in the Southern Hemisphere. Maybe the bi-metal coil expands and contracts in a different rotation based on if it was made in the USA or China? East vs. West physics? Edited November 24, 2015 by Roadkingcoupe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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