RodFru2u Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Well it had to happen, I blame it on the newly mounted, swap meet scored, pretty chrome used hub caps. Truck started to run like it was missing, back fire thru the carb and just no power. A good friend Hank ( HanksB3B ) and I put our heads together ( Cuz 2 minds are better 1 ) and since I had never done a tune up on 'ol Bessie we figured it might help, Sure couldn't hurt. Hank had a few used but serviceable parts and I had time and a place to swap things out. Swapped out everything tried to fire her up and nutting. Took a look at Hank's extra DIst. with marked wires and found out I miss it by one. Fired right up, still missing Took the truck to Pop's shop to do a compression test got the darn adapter stuck in cylinder # 1 ( 120 psi ) Tried to pry it out, Tried to air drive under pressure to catch a thread. Wasted over 2 hours without any success. With Hank's help we decided to pulled the head off, I was able to remove from the head/block 20 & 3/4 bolts. NOT HAPPY ! Well turns out had a blown head gasket anyway, so the head was coming off anyway. The busted bolt is being soaked with liquid wrench and has been drilled for an ez out. Head gasket is ordered and will take head to machine shop for a surface grind in the AM. I know from searching the posts grade #8 bolts are not used and Chevy Bolts are one option to consider. I plan on using copper spray on the head gasket and thread sealer on the NEW bolts, I've got a tap to chase the threads of all holes before I install them, The question is what year Chevy? I am guessing I go to the local parts house and just size them up, but if anybody knows an exact year it might help. I do plan on doing the torque settings and only want to do this once. Thanks for any help and advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Sb chevy, like the 265, 302, 305, 307 327 350 400. You use the short bolts that you see externally down by the exhaust manifold, not the ones under the valve cover 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Why not get a set of new ones from VPW? That is what I did. Remember to retorque them a couple of times after it has gone through a complete heat up cycle. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) My machine shop sourced the bolts for me when I had the head milled. (by the way as long as your are doing it why not take off enough to make a difference in the Compression ratio? .030 to .060 off will really wake up your engine and won't increase the cost of the job significantly) Got them through the machine shop. Pioneer Parts # 362. They were under a dollar when I got them 12 years ago. If you can't source them by brand, that should give you a number to cross reference. http://p15-d24.com/topic/37872-head-bolts/?hl=pioneer Edited November 2, 2015 by greg g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodFru2u Posted November 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Thanks all for the replies, Dave, I will give those a shot and see which size the same. Jeff, I am cheap and want to get the truck back on the road asap and not wait for parts. I still have to get the busted bolt out of the block, Just more good times in my future. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 It's the short ones you can see on the outside. Those are all the same length regardless of the engine size. Maybe the Vortec heads are different but I doubt it. If it's a SB chev with orange paint, they will work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 I used the set of Chevy head bolts that were recommended on here, and they worked great, very close to original, I think just a hair longer, but no issues with them. I got mine from summit, but I don't have the part number handy..its buried in an email somewhere. I definitely recommend the copper spray...I didn't do that on my last one and I got a leak this summer...the gasket looked near perfect, but when I lifted the head, it wasn't stuck at all to either side...so I'm sure it wasn't sealing properly. My head was machined and block checked....I think it's just a downfall of these motors, and the extra compression I'm putting out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 The nightmare is over I watched and chased threads while Rod Drilled, Chiseled, Ice Picked and tapped with taps from his pop Leonard's tool box. Learned there are tapered and bottom taps and in special cases a "custom" starter tap (more tapered). Easy-Outs did not work but perserverance resulted in what looks like a perfect re-thread without the need for a heli-coil. Nice work Rod, Hank 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 The nightmare is over I watched and chased threads while Rod Drilled, Chiseled, Ice Picked and tapped with taps from his pop Leonard's tool box. Learned there are tapered and bottom taps and in special cases a "custom" starter tap (more tapered). Easy-Outs did not work but perserverance resulted in what looks like a perfect re-thread without the need for a heli-coil. Nice work Rod, Hank Use of a left hand drill bit can be a great asset when removing a broken bolt. Frequently the bit will "grab" and unscrew the broken piece. Also a stud removing tool can be helpful if the broken bolt is above the surface. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Don, Thanks. We talked about left hand thread but you moved out of California long ago so we couldn't just drop by pick you up and get you involved. Looks like (and keeping my fingers crossed) all will be well once the machined head gets picked up and Rod's truck gets back together. I'm waiting for a NOS vacuum advance for my spare distributor. The two longer distributors will be available after I finish them or if you want the one I have not worked on can be shipped to you for you to restore. However you want to do it. Thanks Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Another useful trick for broken bolt removal it to drill and tap, left hand threads, inside of the broken piece. Sometimes the tap will dislodge the remnant but most often the 'new' bolt will do the job when it bottoms out in the old bolt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Don, Thanks. We talked about left hand thread but you moved out of California long ago so we couldn't just drop by pick you up and get you involved. Looks like (and keeping my fingers crossed) all will be well once the machined head gets picked up and Rod's truck gets back together. I'm waiting for a NOS vacuum advance for my spare distributor. The two longer distributors will be available after I finish them or if you want the one I have not worked on can be shipped to you for you to restore. However you want to do it. Thanks Hank Hank, PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) Chevy Headbolts Don't look like no Chevy to me. At $2 a bolt I'm not so sure I wouldn't want to carry them onboard, that is if I drive to Tims. Edited November 5, 2015 by HanksB3B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Hank; Did you use new head bolts when you had your engine rebuilt? I would think breakage is only likely to occur on older bolts that have seized after decades of being in place. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodFru2u Posted November 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Thank You Everybody , Dropped the Head off Monday morning, Picked up the Head gasket Monday afternoon. Picked up the head Wednesday afternoon (resurfaced ) and 10 Headbolts , Let oil drain for 3 hours Thursday.morning, picked up the 11 missing headbolts and then torqued the whole mess down. Followed the repair manual's instructions that Hank was kind enough to copy for me. Took a few cranks of the starter and she fired up, smoking & burning off all the oil and crud. Brought it up to temp, Hit 190 before the 160 thermostat opened and down to 160 ran for 15 min. Then Torque again. This morning I will drive it some and then tighten again.. Total cost : Head Gasket $ 31.00 Head Bolts 21@ $2.00 $ 42.00 5 Qts. Oil $ 24.00 Anti Freeze $ 10.00 Copper Spray Gasket $ 8.00 My Pop and Hank working with me PRICELESS !!!. Thanks again everybody for the information about the replacement Head Bolts, Saved my bacon and lots of time. Rod 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Hank; Did you use new head bolts when you had your engine rebuilt? I would think breakage is only likely to occur on older bolts that have seized after decades of being in place. Jeff You are correct Jeff but that's not my engine and that's Rod's hands on his grandfathers torque wrench and his engine. As for my engine...not a clue what was used and in what shape they are in. After helping Rod and picking up some techniques I'm not so sure a mechanic would take the time to Chase all the threads with a standard and then a bottom tap, use all new head bolts, use either antiseize or better yet plummers compound to minimize the inevetable rust that will bind a bolt, make it difficult to remove or snap off years later at the time of removal. There is a lot to be said for Don's choice to go with studs and nuts instead of head bolts. I think Rod did the job as well as anyone possibly could. It was fun and I didn't bleed. Hank Edited November 6, 2015 by HanksB3B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 I knew it was Rod but you expressed a concern about carrying head bolts on trips. I was trying to say that if yours had been replaced at the rebuild they would not be likely to give you problems should you have to pull the head. IMO it would be silly not to address these and the manifold studs during a rebuild. Just makes good sense. Jeff I can't remember a day when I didn't bleed at least a little bit. It is how I sign my work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 So what you are saying is: If my head bolts were new when my engine was rebuilt if I broke down and had a spare gasket I could re-use the head bolts. I assumed that new head bolts should be used. Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Hank, I've R n R'd many heads and have always used the old bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodFru2u Posted November 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 LOL I tell my wife " It's not a good day unless I bleed or get cut on a job " . She bought 3 full first aid kits for me, one home, one in my truck and one in the car. I keep running out of Band Aids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodFru2u Posted November 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 I only replaced the head bolts because 8 of them were eaten away from the water passage and one broke in the block. My Pop was surprised I replaced them also, He has always reused them, never replaced unless needed. I had an extra $ 42.00 so I did it, Besides it allowed me to cut off the heads of two and made locating pins for the head gasket and head to line up on. I will clean the treads with a die and put them in stock @ Pop's, Never know when you need a 7/16 - 13 Bolt. Thanks again EVERYBODY for the GREAT advise and help !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 So what you are saying is: If my head bolts were new when my engine was rebuilt if I broke down and had a spare gasket I could re-use the head bolts. I assumed that new head bolts should be used. Hank Yes you should be OK. If you think about what causes failure on something like this It is usually advanced stages of corrosion that weaken the bolt.....combined with badly seized threads. You shouldn't have any of that going on yet. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Many of the new engines are 'torque to yield' bolts and are used only once. These older engines had the bolts reused multiple times and with the head gasket that seems to like being retorqued after having been run up to temp. New bolts each time would lighten your pocket quickly. I do the tap and die on all the threads and have for a number of years. You can't get a good torque value with dirty or damaged threads. I probably would have started with the bottoming tap and just skipped the regular tap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodFru2u Posted November 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 The only reason I used the starter tap was to clear/clean the threads at the top of the block for a nice start for the bottom tap. I wanted to make sure I was not cross threading any. Besides I had to MAKE time not to flip out and rest because the broken bolt still stuck in the block refused to come out easy. Took me 6 hours to work the busted bolt out so, I wanted to make sure the new bolts would torque and seal. I magnitized a screwdriver to pull any metal shavings out while I could. I torqued the head to specs ( 55- 60 ft. lbs ), Ran the engine for 15 mins, then retoruqued . Driving it home, ran out of gas. Called Pop, he ran a gallon of gas to me, followed me to the gas station, then followed me for 2 miles till I waved him off. Drove home no more problems. I will drive it some more then retorque again. This one of the reasons I bought the truck, it's simple ( like me ) and I can repair most break downs. Once again, Thank you EVERYBODY for the advice and information, This Forum is the greatest and the members are the best . Thanks, Rod 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkrider Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 So i understand this correctly if and when the time to do the gasket ever comes on my truck...You used the head bolts that would go on the outside of the chevy heads (between the exhaust manifold and valve cover) correct? Almost wondering if one couldnt upgrade to say ARP studs intended for that application to have a bit more clamping force to keep the head tightened properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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