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brake woes


Materman

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well, I recently got my original shoes relined to the correct thickness. According to my shop manual the shoes should be 5/32, but now my drums won't fit back on the car. I also rebuilt my wheel cylinders and used the new pins, but everything was identical to the old stuff. What am I missing?

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WIth new thicker linings you will probably have to bring the major (pivot point) eccentrics to the inner position. The shoe linings should must match the arc of the drums. Did the brake lining people arc them to the drums you provided?

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I did bring the eccentrics in all the way, and adjusted the shoes in too, but what do you mean by arcing?

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I did bring the eccentrics in all the way, and adjusted the shoes in too, but what do you mean by arcing?

The radius the face of the shoe lining should be within a few thousandths of the radius of the drum. On an older car with hard to find drums like mine it means that each shoe needs to be shaped to fit the individual drum it will be installed in.

 

Another fellow used the same technique I used to shape the linings but he took photos: http://forums.aaca.org/topic/213186-the-ressurection-of-daphne-a-1932-dl/?p=1396996

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when new shoe lining was installed did the brake lining installed then use an Ammco brake safe arch machine to make sure the lining did not have any high spots. The shoe is placed in the machine and then according to the size of the brake shoe they set the shoe to pivot against a sanding drum so the shoe lining is then perfectly arched to the shoe. This was always done on the old cars when a shop reline d the brake shoes. Now that shops do not replace riveted lining this steps are not being done and the arching tools are not in many garages or might be sitting back in a stoage room.

If you had a quality brake shop relining company that they should have done this to the shoe and also checked that the brake shoe itself had a perfect arch and was not warped in or out of the correct arch for your shoes. If you want to see one of these machine search ebay for Ammco safe arc brake tool.

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

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ok, now that I know what arcing is, no they didn't match the shoes to the drums. it was a fight to get them to get the lining thickness right. took about a month to get the shoes back so I was just happy to have them. I guess I'm on my own as to getting the arc right, I just want to drive this thing for the first time :) .

Edited by Materman
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ok, now that I know what arcing is, no they didn't match the shoes to the drums. it was a fight to get them to get the lining thickness right. took about a month to get the shoes back so I was just happy to have them. I guess I'm on my own as to getting the arc right, I just want to drive this thing for the first time :) .

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According to my brake catalog Wagner the shoe lining should be 3/16. This is why collecting the old literature and also cross reference catalogs come in handy. My old manufacture and repair catlaogs also list the brake shoes that would have been used on your car and this might have saved a lot of time and aggrevation on your part. contact me and send me your home email and I will send you a listing of the various cross reference catalogs that I have on CD.

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com

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ok, now that I know what arcing is, no they didn't match the shoes to the drums. it was a fight to get them to get the lining thickness right. took about a month to get the shoes back so I was just happy to have them. I guess I'm on my own as to getting the arc right, I just want to drive this thing for the first time :) .

[/quo

According to my brake catalog Wagner the shoe lining should be 3/16. This is why collecting the old literature and also cross reference catalogs come in handy. My old manufacture and repair catlaogs also list the brake shoes that would have been used on your car and this might have saved a lot of time and aggrevation on your part. contact me and send me your home email and I will send you a listing of the various cross reference catalogs that I have on CD.

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com

The original post says the linings are 5/32". If your brake catalog says they should be 3/16", then the thickness shouldn't be a problem, since his are 1/32" thinner.

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I used to arc my shoes by hand, with sandpaper stuck inside the drums too.

 

I used skateboard griptape, because I always had big scraps left over from building boards.

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ok, arced the shoes by hand and they still won't fit, I'm afraid if I keep at it it will expose the rivets, what do I do?

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take it to a professional with the right equipment so not to throw good money after bad...it is one thing to try as a learning process it is another to damage things in the process...possibly a shop would do this and allow you to watch the process as a leaning curve to future repairs..

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Are your slave cylinders collapsed completely? Minor adjusters backed all the way off? Major adjusters also backed all the way off?

yes sir, I checked each time that i put the shoes back on

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You said you rebuilt your cylinders and used "new pins." Other owners have discovered that not all cylinder pins are the same length. It might be a good idea to check if your new pins are longer than your old pins. If they are too long the pins will keep the shoes from retracting all the way.

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I checked the pins against the old ones before I installed them in the car, I also checked the pistons and springs in the cylinders and everything was identical.

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New parts identical to old, shoes arced to match drums, major and minor adjustments all the way in. . . The drums should go on.

 

When you try to install the drums is there an area that seems to be holding them up more than the rest (Heel of shoes, toe of shoes, middle of shoes, etc.)?

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sorry, no pics. I can't figure out how to upload pics onto computer, but the whole pad on the shoe seems too thick still, but if I sand it down it would be almost flush with the rivets.

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I made sure arrows on the cam pins were pointing away from the shoe they are controlling

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therein lies a big part of the problem..I do not get a warm fuzzy that you have the repair manual at home and are following/using it.   it is very evident in your reply that you do not....you truly need to be able to follow along by referencing your book when someone is trying to assist you  while what I mentioned may not be your problem, it has the potential to be...and you need to be able to identify and check said item and report back to the forum your findings so it can be ruled out of the equation...

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my apologies, got the pins and anchor bolts confused, but yes the cam is all the way in, on the flat side of the cam lobe, as per the manual in brakes, section 4 of my factory reprint of the dodge paasenger car shop manual covering vehicles from 49-52

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You need to carefully rotate the two anchor bolts slowly back and forth as you try to push on a drum.

Remove the anchor nut and washers and try it. of course the anchors must turn freely.

I think it's just the anchors still are not positioned right.

I have run into this situation before too.

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ok thanks, I'll try that and let you all know my findings

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