Plymouthy Adams Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 both are rated in HP at the same RPM and the larger 265 must be 400rpm plus to take advantage of the torque increase... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thanks for the kind comments and brainstorming. 48Dodger I was actually looking at the 4bt and even 6bt. I love fabricating, (actually bent the entire frame on the bike, started with just straight tubing) was thinking I could box the frame and a few other things. You wouldn't be able to point me in a post were he has info on doing the swap would you? I understand all sides on the disc brake no disk brake, 45 is fast enough these trucks weren't designed for faster speeds ect. However I believe that it would be way cool to use it instead of having it hide in a garage somewhere. For instance would love to tow my boat to go fishing, take my kayaks bike and camper camping. Go on a small trip with it. So I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do this. I have really been leaning towards the Cummins deisel 4bt or 6bt with a different trans and newer dually rear end. She would at least be all dodge have power for days, and cruise at a safe speed down the highway. Lots of work, but I enjoy that kind of stuff. My TODD project is a 6bt project and from what I've researched and seen of the 2 builds that did that, the 6bt is a TIGHT fit into the engine bay area. Bear in mind TODD will be a chassis swap with a heavily modified cab stuck on with modified doghouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffsunzeri Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I run a '42 WD-21 with the dually rear end. It is a similar setup as yours. The rear end ratio is actually a 5.23 or so, and 47 mph is good cruise. I've been toying with adding a Gear Vendors overdrive. It seems to be the best solution for a better highway speed. The issues with the GV OD box are: 1. Cross-member interference 2. Fuel tank is very close to the drive line. 3. Hand brake at trans end. It appears that the solution will be to add the GV box nearer the diff, but I have not called GV for their suggestions. They seem to have fitted these boxes to just about everything. If you give them a call, share the info. I simply have not had the time to follow through on this as other projects keep getting in the way. In the end, I'm pretty certain the GV solution will be the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 gear venders unit has been an option for many years..but the cost is quite considerable...unless you drive this vehicle daily...would be very costly upgrade.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X53Gunner Posted August 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 After I saw the price of the GV I figured I'd rather spend that on a 4bt or 6bt and more modern dually rear and trans. I would really like to drive this 4 to 5 times weekly. Possibly a trip or two. I also think the diesel rates and sound would be cool coming from this truck. Unless I'm thinking wrong this will probably be my best and unique combo for daily driving and 65 or so highway speeds. Lots of work but in the end she should be able to do anything I ask of her and last forever. Oh and look bad to the bone doing it.. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 X53 have you looked at my build thread? http://p15-d24.com/topic/32527-todd-build-thread/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X53Gunner Posted August 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 No I havn't ggdad1951 I will check it out. Thanks, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffsunzeri Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 gear venders unit has been an option for many years..but the cost is quite considerable...unless you drive this vehicle daily...would be very costly upgrade.. Gear Vendors overdrive units are in the $3,000 - 5,000 ballpark. While that's not insignificant, if it's a deterrent to doing it right, maybe one should re-think vintage vehicle ownership. Not to mention is the potential cost reduction if one decides to go it on their own and source their own OD unit and modify as GV does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) truly there are more than one option and the "doing it right" would apply to them all as viewed in the eye of the 'doer'...lol I am not sure but isn't the GV unit basically a European Laycock in disguise...? Edited August 27, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X53Gunner Posted August 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 jeffsunzeri thanks however I don't think anyone should reconsider Vintage vehicle ownership. Or reconsider anything they want to do for that matter! As far as doing it right there are many ways to do things and if it's what a individual wants to do to there own vehicle then I consider that right! Not every vehicle needs to be completely bone stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) well everyone has the very right to do their car/truck as they please...I did not in any matter slam the man's choice or the GV OD unit except to say the item is very costly in initial price...and that is merely an observation and neither a recommendation or a condemnation net return is as Jeff said, based on use of the unit when driven...and satisfaction of personal choice is always at the top of the list.. Edited August 27, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I have owned 3 cars with overdrive units. I really liked them in 2 of those applications. All of them were the Laycock's. But only 2 of those 3 cars had the power to weight ratio required to use the overdrive in any most driving condition. The 3rd car was fine on level highway If you got on much of an incline it was a pig and the OD needed to be disengaged. I think that a small flathead in a heavy truck is going to be very similar and you won't really be able to make nearly as much use of it as you want to. I believe it is going to need a fair amount of a boost in power to really make this idea work. And I am not sure if it is all practical with a 201 thru 230 engine. Just my opinion FWIW. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) in theory and per application of OD in modern cars today the gearing is such that highway interstate cruise speed is 200 rpm less than the rpm max torque is avaialable..I cannot see a heavy vehicle with a low HP pushing along at some 1200 RPM at these speeds with the torque reserve for road changes of the most minor degree, overpasses being the most common need for the extra 200RPM without need for kick out of OD....while the torque curve of the flathead I do not know I assure you just by looking at the means the HP is rated (3600RPM) verse torque at 1200 rpm and GIVEN the larger 265 at 1600 RPM torque with a 119 HP rating at 3600...it is not a powerhouse in any sense of the word. of course you can work the OD with the flattie but the trade off is higher RPM as torque runs out and the need to develop power is result of increased RPMs. And if one was to look close at some of the smaller engines running OD today, small inlines etc....compare their ratio in OD to that of the ratio of the V6/V8 running OD...the available torque makes the V6/V8 such a smooth source of power while underdriven..it is a significant reduction compared to the high available torque V's To run most engines at way more RPM just to try to reduce it later in the final drive...lessens the trade off effectiveness in operational costs..still be better if you sustain rpm and speed..but still a cost factor Edited August 27, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Yep....I agree for the most part. The one car I had that the OD was absolutely best suited for was an Austin Healey 100-6. It was magnificent......and a must have option in my opinion. At the time of the double nickel sped limit I cruised at 1900 rpm in 4th gear OD. And when you stuck your foot into it it had plenty of grunt to accelerate under any condition. As I recall this OD gearing resulted in at least 400 rpm lower at speed than 4th gear by itself. I absolutely loved driving that car equipped that way. I have since driven a couple without the Laycock OD and they are not nearly as sweet. Obviously this car had the right characteristics to make best use of ratios provided by the OD. I think it would take a fair amount of testing to successfully put this type of unit behind a flathead in a heavy truck. I am not certain they even offer these with a ratio that would be close to optimum? Too tall and I think you have just wasted a bunch of money. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Davey Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Gunner- couple of random thoughts.... First, find out what rear axle ratio you have now. I suspect you'll find something like 4:86 or maybe even higher. I talked to Randy at Randy's Ring & Pinion and found that for my '55 half-ton the only options were 4.10 or 4.83 and my truck is a lot newer and lighter than yours and I have a 169 HP V-8! Randy also told me that lower ratios were available for 1957 and newer, but that for older trucks either NOS or scrap yards are you're only option. Now that's 2nd hand opinion as I never looked myself. Second thought, as long as you're searching see if a later model with more friendly ratio is the same width from wheel face to wheel face, maybe even a F**d or Ch**y would work. And finally, a 2 speed diff would be really neat in your truck and would help find just the right gear for your power and weight. Plus you could have a lot of fun split shifting through the gears..... so what if you can't go 65 mph! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Look at the build thread in my signature. I'm putting a 4bt into my '52 dodge b3b. It has a Ranger OD unit from advanced adapters in front of the 4 speed Trans. Currently I'm working on a 39 Plymouth coupe so the trucks on hold for awhile. If you want to know more shoot me a PM. -Chris Edited August 28, 2015 by 1952B3b23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X53Gunner Posted July 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 Well problem solved, I'm am installing a Cumins 6bt and the drive train out of a 1996 dodge 4x4. Question, I'm going to be running new Alcoa Semi Wheels. Anybody know what my original 6 wheels and tires with maybe 100 miles on them is worth? If interested in them also let me know. My email would be best to contact me 64goat@gmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 9 hours ago, X53Gunner said: Well problem solved, I'm am installing a Cumins 6bt and the drive train out of a 1996 dodge 4x4. Question, I'm going to be running new Alcoa Semi Wheels. Anybody know what my original 6 wheels and tires with maybe 100 miles on them is worth? If interested in them also let me know. My email would be best to contact me 64goat@gmail.com. so the 24 valve version of the second gen 6bt? Let me know if you want I can look up the ESN and see if there are any issues with your engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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