NO FIRE!

[50net]

50 CORONET 6v pos.grd. sat for about 1yr.had problems starting but would after awhile.found fuel pump went bad ordered /replaced works great.car still wont start.installed all new plugs [fixed at 35] points [set at 020] wires,cap,cond,coil [wired same as old] tried setting timing as in manual with #6 piston at comp.stroke test light method & #1 piston method but light wouldn't come on.removed #1 spark plug grded no spark.tried coil wire to grd no spark. checked wires at distributor looked good.test light on neg post check dist.lite up everywhere I touched.any ideas why im not getting fire?

[Fernando Mendes]

If you have NO spark:

a)Ammeter shows no discharge-zero reading....primary circuit is interrupted

*breaker points are excessively burned or pitted

*breaker points  in distributor not closing

*loose connections from starter to ignition switch

*primary wire from ignition switch to coil or from coil to distributor may be broken or connections loosened

*ignition coil primary windings may be open

*ignition switch is defective.

b)Normal ammeter reading...needle oscilates between TWO and FIVE amperes discharge while starter is cranking engine...primary circuit is complete.(check secondary circuit)

*High tension wire from coil to distributor may be broken or grounded

*Defective ignition coil or condenser

*Defective distributor rotor or distributor cap

*High tension wires may be wet.

c)Ammeter indicates abnormal discharge-more than TWO to FOUR amperes...a short exists between the ammeter and the ignition coil or in primary winding in ignition coil or in distributor as follows

*Distributor points may not be opening

*Condenser may be "shorted"

*Primary winding in ignition coil may be "shorted"

*Breaker point arm in distributor may be grounded

*Wire from ammeter to ignition switch or from ignition switch to ignition coil may be "shorted" or grounded.

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[Mark Haymond]

Some guys have not pushed the distributor all way in after removing it for repairs. If the shaft is not turning there won't be any breaker points opening and closing. It looks like you are quite familiar with the ignition system, I only made the suggestion because it is a simple quick check.

[50net]

thanks for all the info.after moving wires around by distributor[i was looking for a grd,didn't find?] I retested got spark, need to check wiring probably short.someone did pull dist,its not set dtc mark on crank .I set using #6 piston and rotor position.after some playing finally got to start.still have to play with timing.if you cant use timing light then how do you know position to lock down dist? I have it about in middle right now I can just turn key and itll start so cant be too off?i did have a lot of knockin when trying to give gas figured could have been sticking valves{ plugs had a lot of carbon} I sprayed carb cleaner in ports then lite weight oil waited started let idle then slowly gave gas seems to be a lot better .gave 1st short road test trans doesn't upshift to 4th thinking maybe carb need some adjusting?

[Conroe Powdercoating]

or just install a pertronix module and coil and be done so you can start chasing other issues

[Fernando Mendes]

"To reset ignition timing when the distributor has been removed turn the engine until number 6 piston is on top dead center(T.D.C.) with number 6 exhaust valve just closing.The position of the piston can be checked by removing the small plug from the ignition timing hole above number 6 piston and inserting a time indicator or by lining up the timing mark on the fan drive pulley with the pointer on the chain case cover.By watching the valve action the proper stroke can be determined.Number 6 exhaust valve should close and number 6 intake valve should open at this point.With number 6 piston at the top of the exhaust stroke ,number 1 piston will be at the top for the firing stroke." (Driver's Manual page 39) 

[jeffsunzeri]

thanks for all the info.after moving wires around by distributor[i was looking for a grd,didn't find?] I retested got spark, need to check wiring probably short.someone did pull dist,its not set dtc mark on crank .I set using #6 piston and rotor position.after some playing finally got to start.still have to play with timing.if you cant use timing light then how do you know position to lock down dist? I have it about in middle right now I can just turn key and itll start so cant be too off?i did have a lot of knockin when trying to give gas figured could have been sticking valves{ plugs had a lot of carbon} I sprayed carb cleaner in ports then lite weight oil waited started let idle then slowly gave gas seems to be a lot better .gave 1st short road test trans doesn't upshift to 4th thinking maybe carb need some adjusting?

 

If you've got knocking (more likely pinging) when accelerating, you've got a timing problem. The timing is too advanced, so retard it a bit.

The factory manuals refer to timing by listening for knocking when accelerating up a slight incline. Their advice is to advance the timing slightly just until pinging/knocking happens on acceleration, and then back off a small amount for correct timing without using a timing light. 

 

Pertronix installations don't fix bad timing.

[Fernando Mendes]

Then turn the distributor body in the CLOCKWISE direction to retard the timing(same as distributor shaft).Firing order 1-5-3-6-2-4.

[50net]

I really don't understand how someone installed distributor wrong the advance tubing that goes to carburetor looks to fit one way due to length.when trying to move distributor about 1/4" either way from center?aso on second part of timing it states to hook up light to primary lead to distributor I assume it is center coil wire? I could never get light to lite.i understand this manual was written for the perfect conditions working on a new model then Im sure they didn't take in account of someone installing distributor wrong so....it doesn't get into great detail. unfortunately I cant use a timing light since mark is way off.i read if someone changed the oil pump and didn't mark the rotor direction it can be off ,is it worth it to pull pump to correct?not sure whats involved.to get back to the retard solution for the "knock"noise it is now only when throttle is in halfway position,so to retard would I slowly go ccw? thanks everyone

[50net]

whops this site doesn't have corrections,sorry Fernando I just read about retarding tks

[50net]

so what im reading timing is more about listening to the motor and actions then just a mark on a crank

[50net]

Conroe good advice but..wouldn't that take the FUN out of working on old cars :]

Edited August 4, 2015 by 50net

[Don Coatney]

I assume you have read the static timing section found under the resources tab at the top of this webpage. If not do so and follow the instructions. If your oil pump is not indexed per the book you can still make your engine run and use a timing light to set the timing after the static timing procedure is completed.

 

Everything in the resources section should be required reading prior to posting questions.

[Dave72dt]

I'm assuming you're using a test light for static timing. Primary wire is the small wire going to the distributor. The heavy wire coming from the center of the cap is part of the secondary wiring. The mark on the crankshaft is still important. The pulley is keyed to the crankshaft so it's mark stays consistent with in it's relationship with piston position in the cylinder. Changing the timing only changes when the plugs fire as the pistons go up and down, advancing means sooner , retarding means later.

[Conroe Powdercoating]

Conroe good advice but..wouldn't that take the FUN out of working on old cars :]

 

I dunno, I got so frustrated with mine, I was ready to sell it or swap the entire drivetrain out for a modern mil. I dont mind working on them when it advances the cause or improvements, I hate working on them trying to get them reliable when there are easier answers.

seriously, my car has NEVER ran better now that it has a decent electronic ignition with the stock 6v positive ground set up and once that was done, I could then make all the needed micro adjustments to timing and carb and know I wasnt chasing my tail. It plainly has never started this nice, ran this smooth or restarted hot with zero worries.

[Fernando Mendes]

[50net]

dave72dt thanks for clearing that up ill try it again hopefully itll work for me,that wire goes to the + on coil.that will be easier than trying to hook up by distributor.yes cant use timing light due to dist.being out of line my #1 about 10'oclock position,mark on crank nowhere near tdc   FORUM ;a place,meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

Edited August 5, 2015 by 50net

[Fernando Mendes]

[Fernando Mendes]

Ignition switch(IGN).......to Coil(+)

Coil(-)............................to Distributor.

 

This pic is better to see.

[Fernando Mendes]

[50net]

you know I keep seeing pictures where theres a grd wire coming from distributor,{looking for is how I accidently got fire back} it didn't have one wondering if makes any difference? it is starting

[Dave72dt]

There is no ground wire per se.  The distributor itself becomes the ground.  Somewhere on line there should be an explanation describing how a point and condenser system works.  Understanding the theory is important to successfully trouble shooting the system.

[Fernando Mendes]

[50net]

hey dave thanks for clearing that up.i know when I was checking wires with test light every area I touched showed a ground makes sense distributor is bolt down to block.just diagrams make it look that way. as far as the points operation I did see a video on web that shows in a video how current flows thru ignition circuit www.youtube.com/watch?v=W94iksaQwUo

Edited August 8, 2015 by 50net