doctor dirt Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Thursday I'm replacing the rear main with a Best gasket 4164 steel rubber seal. I know rear main leaks are prevalent in these older cars and I've had rope seals up the butt for 40 years and I'm sick of not finding anyone to do the work. I have found a garage that works on muscle MoPar and owners dad is close to my age and says he can do it but he prefers the rubber/steel seal. Funny enough the car has one in it right now but it was installed improperly. The car had some drops dropping when I first got it but after a few days in a row of 80+ miles the floods broke out! A few drops I can handle but a half a quart every 4 days is to much. Just hoping I don't have poor engine machining as the culprit! I know its an old topic but lets see how this seal does, theres a few members I already contacted who have an interest. ps; this car is a blast to drive, the overdrive is a huge plus. I got the carbs dialed in pretty well although the rpm's sneak up at idle. Doc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Check that you have the correct style "ears" or whatever they are called, the pair of seal things that go either side of the circular seal, between the block and the rear main cap.......my 1941 Plymouth, stock 201 engine "should" of had a rope seal, I had a Best Gasket full gasket set for the 230 I was going to build and from memory it didn't include the rope seal, only the 2 different types of neoprene seals and 2 pairs of ears......so I got hold of a rope seal, sneeky pete setup and went to work.........imagine my surprise(yeh right) when after pulling the rear main I found that it had a noeprene seal but NO ears of any sort.........only about a 50thou cap between the block and main cap so that shouldn't have let much oil out........lol........I was amazed it hadn't dropped more oil....so couldn't get to the top part of the neoprene seal without going in thru the flywheel etc and didn't want to do that..............so put a new bottom(yeh I know, not correct) seal part on, the correct "ears" and put it back together.........still had a small leak but nowhere like the puddles it did have..................andyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted June 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Thats exactly what happened here (bought it that way) . This time everything gets removed and a new one & "ears" and all will be inplace. I was told to add very small touches of silicone to the corners and ofcourse wipe the rubber with oil. Just hoping this is the ticket I hate to have to do a tear down to remedy poor machining. We'll see soon. I'll let everyone know how the seal works. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Rear main has been replaced and the floor is dry! I'll be riding the car out to a "coffee & car" spot on Weds and that should add about 100 miles on it so hopefully everything will remain dry. The linkage is abit out of sorts with reverse preferring to be nuetral ha! Second gear would like to join reverse in nuetral also. I'll straight that out on Tuesday morning. The real test will be more miles and time but right now it looks good. So gasket 4164 Best..............is holding back the puddles. Doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Alot of rain this morning but I did start out early and put 45 miles on the car. I'll check the floor in the AM, still need to sure up the "loose" linkage and hopefully thats all. Hoping for a dry floor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51cambridge Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 As usual the "good & the bad" the seal seems to be fine, no puddles! However my reverse prefers to be in nuetral and second gear is headed that way too. Another strange occurance is when running at about 50mph in OD if I let up on the accelerator and then get back into theres a hesitation as if it disengaged. Plymouthy I'll relay your thoughts to the fellow who did the rear seal. Is there anything that could happen when the seal was replaced? The linkage is ok, and is pretty well snugged up not over tight but not sloppy. Any other suggestions besides "FIRE" just kidding, well maybe not! Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted June 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 My son has suggested that the inner "fork" has lost its "grip" and thats probably the reason for the shifters laziness. He is not a mechanic however he is a bright young man. So I'm back to where I was 2 years ago in need of a tranny guy who is willing and has the experience to open and fix it and around here theres not much to choose from. Does anyone sell reconditioned tranny's for this car? I'm a buyer! Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted June 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Things haven't been much better, the car was down for 2 weeks now. I found a tranny garage in Sarasota who has the car now and will check it out tomorrow. He told me that the end of column is the first place he'll check then disconnect the linkage and manually place the trans in reverse and see if it doesn't hold. Hoping for the best news which would be not having to crack open the box. On a better note the floor is "dry"! Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Just got my coupe back this morning; sheilded bearing. rear bearing. 2/3 syncrinzer w/ rings. fluid. ass. springs. brass let. It seems the tranny is NOT a stock tranny for that year. The parts nneded were from a Jeep/Borg Warner set up. The markings on the parts were identical to the Borg Warner 3 spd. for a period correct Jeep! I'm at my end with the old cars, on the way home (30 mile drive) the car begins to creep and slug as I bring the rpm's up?????? I stop and my "new" rear main seal has decided to pee all over the McDonalds driveway! Soooo my newer clutch plate was getting soaked, the car was dogging out from it and my "rear main seal mechanic" just heard from me. Back to the tranny it seems the electrical set up has stiffilled everyone at the tranny shop. The kick down doesn't seem to be operating and theres more complications with understanding the coordination between tranny & overdrive. The car ran tight and strong at first but once I got to RT 41 and the stop & go was gone it seems the problems began. The tranny mechanic was unable to get the car to switch into overdrive by lifting the accelerator then reapplying his foot. I didn't try to disengage the overdrive because I felt I needed to get home and not take a chance of making things worse! I'm to old and beat up to fight mechanics, cars and any other challenges. This is a really nice coupe like my other one but once again finding reliable people who know what theuir doing is impossible here. (Port Charlotte/Sarasota area) The car goes back to the rear main seal garage next Weds. I'm not sure why I'm doing this he didn't fix it the first time!!!! We'll see if he stands by his work or is trying to play me. At this point I'm the wrong guy to play with. Worn out, Doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I feel your pain and that is why this hobby is not really good if you do not do the majority of your own work...that is not to say that you should not get the service you have paid dearly for at the hands of a professional repair facility....and it is not saying they will not get it right..it is however aggravating when you have to depend on others...you have said your peace tot he man..he will look at it again....you need to walk away a bit and get a cup of coffee and have mums bake a dozen cookies. Hope it works out for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Thanks pal, I might start smoking & drinking again to ease the pain...........maybe go to the stripper club..........possibly a ball game.......or both! If theres trouble with the surfaces on the crank theres no one to trust here to get it done right. Been through that, all the old timers that were capable have retired or past on in this area, not a decent speed shop in sight. Maybe the rope seal might help if surfaces are destroying the "modern" seals? Oh well back to the drawing board, thanks Tim. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hate to hear your having troubles with the rear seal. Thats the same kind I put in mine. Dont have it running yet but right next to getting there. Got my gas tank and radiater back and there both waiting for me to put em in. Put the gas tank up, cut the fuel line to size and flare then screw it on. Drop the battery in and get some cables then turn the key. Hopefully I wont end up blowing oil out the back end. But if it does then I'll be underneath dropping the pan and go from there. I had my crank turned at a machinist, dont need an old fashion mechanic to do that - any good machine shop should be able to take care of your crankshaft if its got some surface issues - a polishing might be enough. Then there is always emery cloth. In any event, I'm with Plymouthy on returning to the same mechanic. I went thru 3 machine shops during my rebuild before I settled on this last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Tomorrow I'll drop the coupe off and we'll talk after they inspect the leak(s). Wondering if the rope seal isn't the answer! My machinists is long closed down here so I spoke with a friend who builds motorcycle engines and he suggested a shop in Bradenton Fl that he's dealt with for about 10 years. So maybe I can get lucky with knowledgeable and reliable folks. The tranny mechanic gave up on the OD electronics but I have a friend who is an engineer who is willing to look at the OD manual and see what he could do. The kick down set up is on the carbs but nothing happens when its manually applied. Well the leak comes first so heres hoping for some answers. thanks, Doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighammer48 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 My '48 D24 has a 54 Dodge 231 engine in it. The rear main seal is leaking. The guy in the Auto Parts recommended the 4164 seal kit. I got the oil pan off today, but am kind of afraid to pull the rear main cap because 2 books I have do not show a "rope" seal and that is what the guy gave me. HELP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Heres the latest on the rear main...........the rear has held up and the "front" seal is the culprit!! I believe the 54 engine can handle the 4164 without a problem. That seal is an older design I think by FelPro so its nothing "new"! If you ordered a 4164 it shouldn't be a rope if its a FelPro. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighammer48 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thanks. The seal I bought is a Best 4162. Is that the wrong seal for a 54 231? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Don't mean to cop out on you but your manual will list the stock and if theres newer alternatives you could comb the archives here or use the net to read the latest. I doubt a 54 231 is different when it comes to the rear main seal from a 217 1951 Plymouth. Can't say definitively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighammer48 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Thanks. I guess I'll just buck up and remove the bearing cap to see what I actually have. Here's hoping that it can be fixed with just the oil pan and bearing cap removed. Edited July 16, 2015 by bighammer48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwothree Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 My 1946-1954 manual show a bolt on rear main till 1952 and a press in neoprene seal for 1953 and up blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighammer48 Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted July 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Got put on hold at the garage, no surprise! I'll be there Monday morning and move things along. good luck b_hammer Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighammer48 Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighammer48 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Well I unbolted the rear main bearing cap. It is nice and loose, but I cannot get it out of the engine! I tried rotating the crank --- no help! There is a lip on it that goes into the bell housing and is keeping it from falling out. Now what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighammer48 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Unbolted the rear main cap. Cap is loose and freely moves, but no matter what I try, I can't get it out of the engine. It has a lip on it that protrudes into the bell housing, and will not clear the bell housing even if I rotate the crank. Now what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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