Conservation Efforts

[wayfarer]

...so sorry... but I thought this was "Off-topic"....

[TodFitch]

...so sorry... but I thought this was "Off-topic"....

Yes, this is an off topic thread, but those posts were going into the realm of taboo.

[Ulu]

Sorry guys. Some days I run out of common sense before quitting time.  

 

Also, as much as I may gripe, I've made a fair living at this business & I love it. I dig being able to drive to work every day, past projects I've worked on over the past 4 decades. Just on the 10 miles I cover to work, there are at least a dozen buildings and complexes where I drew the structure, or some major part of it.

 

I wasn't born in this town, but that's the sort of thing which gives a man a real sense of belonging to a place.  

++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Back to the topic, the lawn is staying green with minimal watering, due to the recycling and a couple minor showers recently. I've been recording the water meter every day trying to determine how much we're using for various activities during the week. 

 

On the two days a week we're allowed to water, we're using about 7x more water than other days. I could reduce my water use from 10k gals/mo to about 6000 if I let the lawn go and just water trees and plants. So far, the water we're recycling won't be enough to keep it all green. It'll be a bit better if I can get the shower recycling going, but we're even saving some of that now, using buckets. (Big PITA using buckets.)

 

Right now, based on our historical usage & what we use now, we won't be fined by the city unless we go over 19k gals per month; and I expect to be well under 15k even with the lawn watering. We basically used 5450 gals in 11 days, or average about 500 gals a day.

This is three times the baseline residential ration of 5k/mo & the lion's share is going onto the greenery.

[William Davey]

Water dilemma in California? Then why am I buying bottled water in New York that came from California? I guess we don't have enough water in NY (Lake Ontario, the Finger Lakes, St. Lawrence, Hudson, and Mohawk Rivers - just to name a few). I'm not making this up.

[Ulu]

Nestle (a Swiss company) bottles water in California and sells it nationwide. Go figure...?

 

California actually still has a lot of water. It's just not where all the people are.

 

I guess if you can charge $1 a bottle for water, you can afford to ship it coast to coast too. 

[Dennis_MN]

I'm late responding to this because I am in the mode of reading my water meter twice a day to see if any thing unusual is going on.  I've collected about a months worth of data, I used a computer program to calculate the difference in readings then multipled by 7.48 to convert from Cubic Feet to Gallons.

I had been gone for most of the first quarter and I got a water bill for about a years worth of usage.  The water department had me read the meter 1st thing in the morning and the last thing at night.  The overnight readings were to capture the water softener regeneration.  Two nights in a row it regenerated and used over 200 gallons of water.  So I have a bad GE water softener.  But I was able to capture some other interesting readings.

Dishwasher used 40 Gallons, Washing Machine used 18 gallons, My wife used 22 Gallons for her bath and I used 17 gallons for my morning routine of ****, shower, and shave.  One of our toilets used 4 gallons per flush.

It looks like my wife and I average about 134 gallons per day.  

 

I live in a townhouse so we do not water our lush green grass, the association does.

 

Dennis

[Plymouthy Adams]

had a leak in the water line just before the meter...county's side....while I will say I could be accused of calling a bit often to report it...it was over a month and a half for them to get there to repair it...and on top of that the meter reader would have to walk around the bog to look at the meter...he never made mention per the publics works dispatch...so conservation =  idle conversation only in my neck of the woods...and it cost them a small load of dirt to replace that what washed out..grass seed and straw....another leak along the main road gushed for three weeks and I reported it several times...my point is..if they can treat and waste water to this degree..why am I having to pay for metered service?

[Ulu]

 . . .I used a computer program to calculate the difference in readings then multipled by 7.48 to convert from Cubic Feet to Gallons. . . .

 

Oh, geeze . . . cubic feet?

 

I'm pretty sure my meter clocks gallons, but I never really considered that! They bill us by gallons. I'm certain of that.

 

But if it's cubic feet I'm reading, we're using 100,000 gallons a month!

[TodFitch]

. . . Dishwasher used 40 Gallons, Washing Machine used 18 gallons, My wife used 22 Gallons for her bath and I used 17 gallons for my morning routine of ****, shower, and shave.  One of our toilets used 4 gallons per flush. . . 

I am surprised that the dishwasher used more than the washing machine. 40 gallons seems like a lot for that.

 

Is your washing machine a top load or front load?

 

I think California, or at least the counties I've lived in, have required 1.6 gallon flush toilets since the 1980s. I don't think I've seen a 4 or 5 gallon flush toilet in years.

 

 

Oh, geeze . . . cubic feet?

 

I'm pretty sure my meter clocks gallons, but I never really considered that! They bill us by gallons. I'm certain of that.

 

 

My city bills by ccf (100 cubic foot) increments. I've never bothered to look at the meter to see what it is calibrated for.

[Ulu]

..if they can treat and waste water to this degree..why am I having to pay for metered service?

 

They have to recoup the cost of installing and maintaining the meters. 

 

I know you're old enough to remember when people were saying that Atomic Power would make electricity too cheap to meter.

 

Well that was never possible, but say it was: Just because something is "too cheap to meter" doesn't mean the government is going to let us have it gratis unless they are forced to.

 

Same with water.

[Ulu]

I am surprised that the dishwasher used more than the washing machine. 40 gallons seems like a lot for that.

 

Is your washing machine a top load or front load?

 

I think California, or at least the counties I've lived in, have required 1.6 gallon flush toilets since the 1980s. I don't think I've seen a 4 or 5 gallon flush toilet in years.

 

My city bills by ccf (100 cubic foot) increments. I've never bothered to look at the meter to see what it is calibrated for.

 

We get 10,000 gal baseline bill 6 times a year, plus extra $ for every 1000 gallons over that, on an increasing schedule. It used to be about $2.50 for the next 1000 gals, then $2.75 for the next, then $3 and on up. I don't know what the new (emergency drought year) cost will be on the next bill, but they say if I go 1 gal over the allotted amount, there will be a fine.

 

My washing machine uses about 12~16 gallons, depending on how big the load is & if I do a "2nd rinse with extended spin". My dishwasher is 15 years old now, but it only uses about 9 gallons.

 

I have a big, tall 1959 model American Standard toilet, which I refitted to save water.  My wife is rather short & has a Lamosa 3/4 scale girly toilet, which somehow uses just as much water but certainly doesn't flush as forcefully.

 

I never met a low flow toilet that I liked.

 

Anyhow, since the kids are gone, we don't have a lot of toilet action anymore. It makes more sense to conserve other ways.

[Plymouthy Adams]

They have to recoup the cost of installing and maintaining the meters. 

 

I know you're old enough to remember when people were saying that Atomic Power would make electricity too cheap to meter.

 

Well that was never possible, but say it was: Just because something is "too cheap to meter" doesn't mean the government is going to let us have it gratis unless they are forced to.

 

Same with water.

again, right over your head.....point was...if on you..they going to burn you at the stake and take all ya got...if on them...no big deal...pass it on to you anyway...

[Ulu]

again, right over your head.....

 

Not at all. I deal with public building projects every day buddy.

 

The government always passes its waste on to the taxpayer.

 

Never the reverse AFAIK

[Dennis_MN]

I am surprised that the dishwasher used more than the washing machine. 40 gallons seems like a lot for that.

 

Is your washing machine a top load or front load?

 

I think California, or at least the counties I've lived in, have required 1.6 gallon flush toilets since the 1980s. I don't think I've seen a 4 or 5 gallon flush toilet in years.

Washer is a front load LG, the dishwasher is a Maytag city guy thought 40 gal was normal. The softener in manual mode used 32 gals

We have 4 stools in our 20 year old house, I've refitted one to dual flush but my wife uses the number two mode all the time so 4 gals per her flush. Some day I'll check number 1.

[Don Coatney]

When the early model 1.6 gallon toilets first hit the markets they did not work well Most required 2-3 flushes to get the job done and this made no sense as a water saver. Technology has improved. The new "power flush" toilets will send golf balls down the hole with the 1.6 gallon requirement.

 

I do not live in a water restriction zone. There are 3 rivers flowing through my town and a substantial annual rainfall. Shower heads however are still government mandated for low flow and have been for many years. This is one area where in my opinion more water is needed to get the job done. I have removed the water restriction device and drilled out the ports in every shower head I have replaced in the last 30 years. Taking a drive in the car to blow the stink off just don't cut it.

[wayfarer]

Washer is a front load LG, the dishwasher is a Maytag city guy thought 40 gal was normal. The softener in manual mode used 32 gals

We have 4 stools in our 20 year old house, I've refitted one to dual flush but my wife uses the number two mode all the time so 4 gals per her flush. Some day I'll check number 1.

 

I think the 40gal number is way off for a dishwasher....found this

As of August 11, 2009, ENERGY STAR qualified dishwashers are required to use 5.8 gallons of water per cycle or less. Older dishwashers use much more water than newer models. A dishwasher purchased before 1994 uses more than 10 additional gallons of water in each cycle...

 

and since 1992 all new toilets have a 1.6g max flow (even less for some models)... 4 gal for a stool was possible prior to 1992

[TodFitch]

I think the 40gal number is way off for a dishwasher....found this

As of August 11, 2009, ENERGY STAR qualified dishwashers are required to use 5.8 gallons of water per cycle or less. Older dishwashers use much more water than newer models. A dishwasher purchased before 1994 uses more than 10 additional gallons of water in each cycle...

 

and since 1992 all new toilets have a 1.6g max flow (even less for some models)... 4 gal for a stool was possible prior to 1992

I looked at the specifications for our dishwasher and found it varied between 2 and 10 gallons depending on the cycle selected and how dirty the sensors determined the contents were.

[Ulu]

Our meter is indeed marked in gallons, and we're at about 12,000 for the month of May so far. 1/3 of that is going on the trees, and 1/3 on the lawn & plants. The water softener takes a big chunk. At least 1200 gals a month. Lots of the rest is laundry.

 

I brought home the third 50 gal cistern last night and got it set up to collect shower water. Right now we're using about 25 gals each morning (total) for showers, with my wife using 2/3 of it. I'm not collecting 100% of it yet, though I managed to recycle about 20 gals today.

 

We only run the dishwasher about 4 times a week, so that really amounts to about 40 or 50 gals.

 

But every drop we recycle is a drop I don't pay a premium to buy, since we are well over the baseline.

 

BTW, People here are being mislead to believe that the baseline is really all they should be entitled to use without penalties, but the baseline is really the minimum you can buy. It's not the average necessary amount. It's the least they will sell you. I can't justify penalties, in my mind, just for exceeding the absolute minimums.

[Ulu]

I can't justify penalties, in my mind, just for exceeding the absolute minimums.

 

I just re-read the letter and the city said nobody would be penalized for not meeting the 36% reduction mandate, if they were still under the baseline.

 

Nobody who waters the lawn will be under the baseline, & until just this month you could be ticked for having a dead lawn, dead tree, or dry weeds in your yard etc. so everyone watered if they didn't want to pay a fine!

 

Therefore, only scofflaws will have a prior usage history that low (below baseline) but now anyone under baseline will have a brown lawn.

 

I abandoned the 1/3 of my back yard that I was going to re-sod as the dogs had ruined it. I cut watering times back 50%, and still we will be more than 2x baseline for this 61 day billing period, as we still water the maximum 2 days a week., It would still not be enough to keep the remaining yard green without the recycled water too. Much of the overage has gone on my redwood trees, which are much too valuable to allow to die if I can help it.

 

Fresno county has started giving away "recycled" (non-potable) water to anyone who brings a tank or a bucket. I may get something temporary on my trailer to avail myself of this, the other problem being the 25 mile drive across town to get it.

 

Well drillers have been coming here from out of state to work. I'll bet many are from Texas, too. The waiting list to drill a new well is over a year now, unless you have some kinda pull. I sure hope this drought is on the wane. 

[Ulu]

I looked at the specifications for our dishwasher and found it varied between 2 and 10 gallons depending on the cycle selected and how dirty the sensors determined the contents were.

 

OK, that's amazing. How do they sense that?

[ggdad1951]

 

 

Well drillers have been coming here from out of state to work. I'll bet many are from Texas, too. The waiting list to drill a new well is over a year now, unless you have some kinda pull. I sure hope this drought is on the wane. 

 

thing is RAIN won't replenish the ground water in any of our lifetimes, just the above ground sources.

[TodFitch]

OK, that's amazing. How do they sense that?

I have no idea. . . I guess that is something to read up on.

[Ulu]

thing is RAIN won't replenish the ground water in any of our lifetimes, just the above ground sources.

 

I didn't realize that fact, but I know the San Joaquin Valley has sunk like 50 feet from groundwater pumping (or so they claim) and groundwater levels have dropped 500 feet & more.

 

Here we have what they call "recharge ponds", which are just artificial ponds that collect water from the storm drains and let it percolate back into the ground. They can't be putting back much compared to what we've pumped out.

 

Anyhow, all the shallow wells here are giving out, and everyone is drilling much deeper wells.

[Dennis_MN]

You guys got my curiosity up, so tonight I had a full load for the dishwasher so I ran to the basement and read the meter.

I ran it in the sense mode and it used 4.0 gallons of water. Then while I was at it, I flushed the dual mode toilet at it used 1.5 gallons.

I'll check the Maytag the next time in the normal mode to see what that does.

Dennis

[Don Coatney]