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Needing help!! wont start!


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Hi everyone Im new to this forum. Im 17 and have been building my dodge truck since I was 12, ive done all the work myself and payed for it. Its been a dream working on it and i now own two of them (parts truck and original) but heres my problem my shop manual has one firing order, that when i turn the engine over knowing theres spark (ive rebuilt carb. new spark plugs, etc shes all new.) it does nothing once in a while like for a half hour of cranking it pops very slightly but wont start. so i test the spark .25 inch gab of spark then i try the firing order at 153624 and all i get is a ton of back firing and popping and stuff it ran once about 2 years ago and i havent changed a thing it didnt run to well and everything is right ive checked it a good 40 times. it fires but like its timing is off and so i adjust it and get nothing.... ive been stalled for 2 years because it wont come to life.. and i need help this truck is perfect all except it doesnt run. i need some help from people who actually have worked with this specific engine. 218ci l6 thank you for any help or tips you can give me.  :mellow:
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Are you sure your distributor isn't in 180 degrees out? It sounds like it to me, unless we have a stuck valve issue that isn't allowing it to draw fuel into the cylinders. Take the dist out and spin the rotor a 1/2 turn and reinstall. Your wiring order is right

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Pull the plug from 1, put your thumb or finger over the hole, bump the engine over until it wants to push your thumb off the hole. When it does that, you should be near TDC of No 1 cylinder on compression.Now rotate the crankshaft forward or backward until TDC lines up with your timing pointer. Pull the cap. The rotor should be pointing at the No1 plug wire terminal. It sounds like you may be off 180 degrees or you have some valves sticking open.

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I posted this response in another thread about static timing last June. This may be of some assistance to you.

Don Coatney, on 28 Jun 2014 - 4:40 PM

Don Coatney, on 28 Jun 2014 - 3:40 PM, said:

My car had been running really good until I went for a drive yesterday. My engine developed a slight irregular misfire with no repeatable pattern. I suspected an issue with adjustment of my dual point setup so the first thing I did was pull my distributor. I set up my bench test using an electric drill, power supply, and test coil. I found a slight variation in dwell angle. I made a very slight adjustment in point gap and corrected that issue.

 

Prior to pulling the distributor I brought the engine to TDC and noted the rotor position. Having made the slight point adjustment I re-installed the distributor and positioned it very close to the same position it was in when I removed it. I made an attempt to fire the engine and it was a no go. I made attempts to fire the engine with my remote starter button and a hot wire under the hood while turning the distributor under the hood and it was all a no go. I connected my timing light while cranking the engine with the starter and found my timing was a good way off from TDC. So I brought the engine to TDC using the starter motor. I pulled the plug wire from #1 spark plug and connected it to a spare plug sitting on the head. I then (without spinning the engine) moved the powered up distributor until I was getting spark exactly at TDC correctly static timing the engine.

 

As I had been spinning the engine a lot with no fire I suspected my plugs may be fowled so I removed them and sand blasted them. While the plugs were out I also used an air gun down the plug holes to clear the cylinders of any flooding. Reinstalled the plugs, hit the starter button, and the engine fired right up. I then used my timing light to dial it in.

 

So my point being correct engine timing is a very small window. If you take the time to insure your engine is correctly static timed and all other system problems are corrected the chance of starting is greatly improved.

 

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Pull the plug from 1, put your thumb or finger over the hole, bump the engine over until it wants to push your thumb off the hole. When it does that, you should be near TDC of No 1 cylinder on compression.Now rotate the crankshaft forward or backward until TDC lines up with your timing pointer. Pull the cap. The rotor should be pointing at the No1 plug wire terminal. It sounds like you may be off 180 degrees or you have some valves sticking open.

mostly good advice, but it isn't usually recommended to rotate the crankshaft backwards to set timing.  potentially introduces mistiming if there is any slack in the timing chain by taking up the slack in the wrong direction.

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Here is a few other items to check once you have made sure timing is correct. As Don has pointed out the timing on these engines has a very small window......in other words the proper running range is very narrow.....only about 8 degrees give or take.

 

Plugs.....are they fouled by any chance? If you have resistor plugs fitted they should be gapped at .035". Might not hurt to put fresh ones in.

 

Have you checked that the fuel pump is working and that the level in the float bowl is correct? With the air filter off if you work the throttle by hand do you get a good stream of fuel? The fuel system on these old trucks can be a bit touchy after a long sleep. It took me several attempts to get my system just so. Just because you rebuilt it doesn't mean some dirt or crud has not found its way into a critical point.

 

What is your starting procedure? Try setting the choke and throttle knobs out about 1/2".....pump the accelerator once or twice and with the ignition on turn it over. When all is correct it should catch and run pretty quickly.

 

Hope this helps and best of luck.

Jeff

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mostly good advice, but it isn't usually recommended to rotate the crankshaft backwards to set timing.  potentially introduces mistiming if there is any slack in the timing chain by taking up the slack in the wrong direction.

That's true, but it should get him in the ballpark, at least inside the right 180 degrees. Trying to keep it as simple as possible. Hopefully the person doesn't go past TDC initially. Backing it up past TDC a ways if that happens and then coming forward to TDC will take the slack out. To get it more precise, I would have recommended retarding the timing first, then bringing to TDC and then advancing the timing until the points just begin to open. Small steps first, lets see if he's trying to start it on compression or exhaust cycle first. Edited by Dave72dt
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thank you all for all your help and quick replies a lot of good information was given!! i completely forgot i had posted to this forum because i didnt think anyone would reply but i got it to run not very good but it ran. so heres all thats been done. new sparkplugs and wires carb rebuilt cleaned and gaped points about 8  hours worth of charging and cranking and a million different firing orders i tried. the normal firing order didnt work at first which was strange..? so i took my over complicating mind and i mapped each cylinder stroke with a lightbulb that i rigged to the points. i took off the cylinder head and rotated each piston through the stroke till i hit compression and ignition. looked at its location on the dizzy and there you go 3 hours later she ran but it wouldnt run without assist from the starter it would after letting of the starter fire for like 4 rotations never actually starting id say.I have two identical carbs but i used the one that said rebuilt so maybe it needs some major tuning like its not giving enough fuel?  like i said im not a real genius with this engine it to me is like a beautiful clock you get everything perfect runs like a dream but if are missing one little thing well there goes a weekend of trouble shooting. I honestly love this engine i used to be a chevy 350 guy but now im just like who needs power when you got something that just purs  like this engine does? anyways ignition is correct now i just need help getting it fine tuned to just idle and go also my gas pedal is gone and my floors rusted out and i replaced them with sheet metal any tips on a proper safe alternative to the stock pedal? mines bolted on with a door hinge but it only goes from idle to full throttle like one inch so help please? haha your all gonna get real annoyed with me by the time this trucks done... i know cars i just dont know Chrysler all too well i wish i did because they are a marvel of engineering!

post-7898-0-79593400-1426983821_thumb.jpg this is how i found it haha buried in dirt!

!! thank you all for the help !!!!! post-7898-0-54784200-1427068740_thumb.jpg

Edited by 1950dodgefan
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you forgot that you posted yesterday??

haha yes sir! its spring break week and not only have i worked this whole week.. my basic schedule was wake up 4:30 am set up lights (this whole restoration has been outside) get out tools compressor etc worked on wiring and polishing all the stainless steel till new and like my frame it wasnt sand blasted and repainted nope! took the cab off all by myself i sanded the frame down to bare metal with 80 grit sand paper and a wire brush. ive gotten over the past 5  years, the truck almost entirely restored and looking new and im only 800$ into the resto including price of a parts truck. ive done everything myself. its why its so important to me and well id work 4:30 am to 1-2 am the next night and sleep 2 hours and up again i actually got sunburnt from being outside so long i usually forgot to eat. you see this truck was my aunt and uncles date truck he asked her to marry him next to it and after a while it was given to my great grandma and grandpa and they used it for many years and then when i was in 6th grade i asked about the big brown dodge they had and they told me i could have it one condition when it was done id give them all a ride to the old diner in town and well my great grandpa passed not to long ago before he got to see the truck so... ive been working on it till my hands almost bleed haha most people think im crazy but im just a gear head wanting to bring it back to the family!! so yeah i totaly forgot about this post!! anyways hey everyone i have a 1949 dodge B1C for parts if you need anything let me know i have good doors cab fenders i have everything its a flatbead though i have the chrome and even original split rims and tires if you need anything ill sellit for cheap cause any dollar helps!!! thank you all!! 

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All I can say is Holy Smokes!!!!! to that second picture. :eek:

You ought to get a special commendation for bringing this one back to life.

You should get a rebuild kit and watch the you tube videos on B & B carbs.

 

Jeff

thank you and yes the truck went through 4 floods as it was parked by our crick down at ol grannys farm it had absolutely no wired left they were all eatn and the truck had the engine bay full of dirt, skeletons, and some things and the cab was full to the door handles i dug it out with shovels!! but its not about the work to me or the money its about a new life and im excited to give this truck one!!! and i will see about the carb rebuilds thank you !! and oh you shouldve seen when we first started it back in 2011 its exhaust pipe was full of dirt and when the engine fired it shot all of the dirt and rat crap against the siding of our house haha she sure is a dream though and i wouldnt trade it for anything. 

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What the heck is wrong with kids today? They don't appreciate old cars. They are lazy. They can't fix things, just throw them away.

 

Oops. Wait a sec.

 

You are only 17? You've taken on a task when you were 12 that many in the old car field would have left as too big a problem. I only wish I had my act together half as much as you when I was your age. Wow! Way to go!

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haha thanks guys much appreciated you all are very helpful in the motivation behind it!! i even redid the original...thats rite original wood slats that go in the bed from the factory! which is pretty awesome haha and i instead of going to marK and getting a full bed kit im building my own boards there going to be a solid red oak and instead of your typical lacquer finish im going to do a poly resin finish basically you take your wood and you put it in a giant vacuum bag full of poly resin and you vacuum all the air out and it seals the fibers of the wood making it a glass almost petrefied piece of wood that will last forever and you can polish it to a mirror finish i have big hopes for this truck i even taught myself bodywork on it! thank you all for the support!! im most likely turning this into a build thread for those interested ill post pics and stuff and show you my little shortcuts i took to keep the piggy bank happy ;) haha also like i said you need any parts ill take them off my parts truck rebuild them like new for ya and ship em off for cheap!!! i restored the heater in my truck so if you need one i can restore theone in the parts truck any parts you need let me know and illl see what i can come up with!!! also mine is the 5 window with the door glass that has the roll up window but then the window on a hinge anyone know where i can get parts to rebuild that stuff?? like the window channels and stuff also the guides that my window rolls on when the mech is cranked down those broke anyone know where i could get them?? my windows are frozen solid and i cant get them to budge so i need to rebuild the channels and all the seals..

 

i feel like i should pay you guys for your help im pretty much going to have to rob you of all your knowledge!! haha  

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What the heck is wrong with kids today? They don't appreciate old cars. They are lazy. They can't fix things, just throw them away.

 

Oops. Wait a sec.

 

You are only 17? You've taken on a task when you were 12 that many in the old car field would have left as too big a problem. I only wish I had my act together half as much as you when I was your age. Wow! Way to go!

haha yeah i turned 17 march 13th im just a little youngblood with some wrenches and a mopar  :cool: i did this hat rack for my shop class when i was in 7th grade, i hand carved a outline of my truck from a picture i had taken and photoshopped a little ;)post-7898-0-45021700-1427079121_thumb.jpg

and then some other little progress my 8th grade year haha im a junior now!

post-7898-0-84229000-1427079213_thumb.jpgpost-7898-0-69925800-1427079244_thumb.jpg hand sanded frame in primer and even rebuilt the tank post-7898-0-37109800-1427079318_thumb.jpg not factory spec but hey i was 14 when i built this floor pan... welding was a new thing and metal shaping was kinda too post-7898-0-16876500-1427079393_thumb.jpg repainted everything and even had time for body work inside the cab thats rite!! inside i dont even know if your supposed to but yep used dent pullers and homemade body hammers and get this... i HATE bondo putty....all dents that couldnt be filled i used lead to smooth them out not very safe but hey i head lead weights from fishing lures sooo i improvised haha post-7898-0-33730300-1427079541_thumb.jpg 

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Using lead...... Well let's hope you live long enough to enjoy the truck! LOL just kidding. That's amazing that you've done so much and headed in all the right directions...it's great to know there's still a few in your generation not looking to hop up a Honda or Mazda!

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Using lead...... Well let's hope you live long enough to enjoy the truck! LOL just kidding. That's amazing that you've done so much and headed in all the right directions...it's great to know there's still a few in your generation not looking to hop up a Honda or Mazda

yeah i was sure it wasnt very safe, so i made sure i used a respirator and a lot of fans to take care of the fumes... the ol hearts still pumpin strong hah 

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Well you have certainly impressed me. Most of us wouldn't have attempted what you have. You get an A+++ in my book.

 

Since you have been at this for a while I am going to share a little something with you to help with the hard times. Whenever I got frustrated with my project I would watch the World Greatest movie. The Ultimate Pilothouse Movie. "The Rounders" with Glen Ford and Henry Fonda. Never fails to put a smile on my face. Kept me going when nothing else could.

 

Jeff

Hope you have a ton of fun with it.

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yeah i was sure it wasnt very safe, so i made sure i used a respirator and a lot of fans to take care of the fumes... the ol hearts still pumpin strong hah 

Lead is a neurotoxin, so heart might be fine but you might be worried about your brain. . .

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Lead is a neurotoxin, so heart might be fine but you might be worried about your brain. . .

I think you are missing the big picture. My brain has never been fully intact so I don't think lead has had that effect on me at least not enough for me to worry about. But thinking a bit lower most of the lead I have absorbed in my short lifetime has gone straight to my behind as I really have a hard time getting the lead out of my A$$. :o

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Well you have certainly impressed me. Most of us wouldn't have attempted what you have. You get an A+++ in my book.

 

Since you have been at this for a while I am going to share a little something with you to help with the hard times. Whenever I got frustrated with my project I would watch the World Greatest movie. The Ultimate Pilothouse Movie. "The Rounders" with Glen Ford and Henry Fonda. Never fails to put a smile on my face. Kept me going when nothing else could.

 

Jeff

Hope you have a ton of fun with it.

oh really theres a movie with these trucks in it?? ill have to watch it and hey guys thank you all for this help!! what can you tell me about the oiling system on the engine? its never ran long enough to warm up at most its ran for like 15-20 seconds but its been cranked a tonnnn so i popped my oil filter lid and theres no oil in there and ik its full of oil so does it not pump oil to the filter till the engine gets to temp?? really dont wanna rep;ace the oil pump haha! and somehow water got into my oil so i need to change it anyways i have no clue how it could have because the radiator hasnt had water through it since i rebuilt it! 

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